Herman Cain on gun control and the 2a. Anyone know?

[Ohio Gun Guy]

Romney has been on both sides of every issue, and maybe back again on some....

Cain, I think gets it. Yes, many of his positions are not 100% known, but anyone who believes the power of the federal government is limited, likely believes that about the 2nd amendment. I think he's not coming out on it because he hasnt needed to yet.

I WILL BE LISTENING AND FOLLOWING WHAT HE SAYS VERY CLOSELY! I VOTE, AND I VOTE THIS ISSUE! I strongly believe that if someone will ignore the 2nd, they hold no other (God Given) right sacred either.

 

[BambiB]

Cain sounds OK to me (based on the above post, I know nothing else of him)...it should be a state decision. (states have Constitutions too)

So, would you be okay with each state deciding whether you could practice your religion, speak freely, petition the government for redress of grievances? Would you be okay with each state deciding whether its police could arbitrarily strip search you for no reason at all, or monitor your phone, computer, written and spoken communications? How about cruel and unusual punishment? Think states should just decide whether you are entitled to a trial by jury? Or whether that jury should be made up of your peers or just anyone the states decides should hang, er, I mean TRY you?

If you're willing to say states can take away your right to bear arms, why not all these rights - and others - as well?

And if you're okay with that, then Cain's your man!

 

[hso]

One of the reasons that we don't have discussions on politics here is that members cannot seem to resist the urge to shift focus off the 2A and onto other issues that aren't within our scope.

The topic is Mr. Cain's 2A position. What other positions he may have are not on topic. What other issues there are around him are not on topic.

 

[blue_ridge]

I posted to this earlier today, but it has mysteriously vanished.

So, again, in Cain's own words:

“I strongly support the Second Amendment...In the Declaration of Independence, where it says we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are -- you hear the part that among these? -- life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Among these means, there are some more unalienable rights. And I happen to believe that one of those other unalienable rights is the right to protect yourself, protect your family, protect your property, and that’s why we have the Second Amendment. We have the unalienable right to protect ourselves and that means a strong, uninhibited Second Amendment,” he said.

 

[ErikO]

Unalienable does not mean leave it to State level government to decide.

 

[basicblur]

So, again, in Cain's own words

As one of his former aides is reported to have said; If you let him respond long enough, he'll eventually talk himself out of his position.
Based on the abortion segment with John Stossel (as well as others), I'd say the former aide hit the nail on the head. I think he talked himself out of his position 'bout 10 times, but the back and forth (with himself) was kinda like watching a tennis match as he flip-flopped-flip-flopped-flip... (well, you get the idea).

And iff'n one can talk themselves out of their position, it probably means they don't really have one.

When he first came on the scene I was willing to give him a test drive-well that turned out to be a clunker.
Despite the media fawning over how likeable he is, he just gives me the creeps, and that has nothing to do with his current problems.
The olde Spidey sense now tingles every time I see him-just like it always has with Michelle Bachmann.

 

[blue_ridge]

As one of his former aides is reported to have said; If you let him respond long enough, he'll eventually talk himself out of his position.
Based on the abortion segment with John Stossel (as well as others), I'd say the former aide hit the nail on the head. I think he talked himself out of his position 'bout 10 times, but the back and forth (with himself) was kinda like watching a tennis match as he flip-flopped-flip-flopped-flip... (well, you get the idea).

And iff'n one can talk themselves out of their position, it probably means they don't really have one.

When he first came on the scene I was willing to give him a test drive-well that turned out to be a clunker.
Despite the media fawning over how likeable he is, he just gives me the creeps, and that has nothing to do with his current problems.
The olde Spidey sense now tingles every time I see him-just like it always has with Michelle Bachmann.

You're sure nailin' down the facts. Please include your source for the former aide's comments, so we can deal in reality rather than relying on your Spidey sense. I googled it and found one source, NY Times. If that's your source, we can discount it without further discussion.

There isn't a candidate with a more loyal Constitutional position than Cain, IMO.

 

[basicblur]

You're sure nailin' down the facts. Please include your source for the former aide's comments, so we can deal in reality...

Don't haff to-I've seen it in action (that's enough reality for me) in more than one video-all you have to do is dig up the Stossel video and you too can see it in practice!

...rather than relying on your Spidey sense

Tried to deny the old instincts for years and probably gave too many folks too much benefit of the doubt, only to end up slapping my forehead and realizing I shoulda heeded the olde Spidey sense!

Yeah...I still give folks some leeway 'til they prove me wrong, but I pay much closer attention to ye olde instincts than I used to.

There isn't a candidate with a more loyal Constitutional position than Cain, IMO

More than Ron Paul?

 

[blue_ridge]

You've got three candidates to choose, unless you prefer Obama. Paul is not one of them. I've donated to Paul before. Love him. But he's not going to sniff the White House. Cain, Romney or Gingrich. Cain is the one who will protect the 2nd amendment most of those three.

From Cain's speech at the NRA annual meeting 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=kplLAcpJtbw

 

[capt.hollis]

Cain is the one who will protect the 2nd amendment most of those three.

yes

 

[hso]

Then why no written position instead of stump speeches?

 

[beatledog7]

We seem to have a lot of these "Candidate X on 2A threads, and they do tend to get into other Constitution-related topics. I think that's inevitable and good, since how a President or any other elected Federal official views the Constitution in general is a major influence on how he/she will treat RKBA.

A Congressman, Senator, or President who generally poo-poos the Constitution will not respect RKBA.

 

[45crittergitter]

Jim Shepherd's interview with Cain:

http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/features/225223

 

[Bill_Rights]

hso: "Then why no written position instead of stump speeches?"

Completely aside from the recent bru-ha-ha about alledged sexual harassment, I think Mr. Cain may not be ready for prime time this 2012 campaign season. There is a lot to it, and I think it takes more than a few months to prepare. A well thought out written position on 2A is a case in point. It is one of the dozens of things that just didn't get done.

I personally think that Cain will be fine on 2A and all related issues. I can't justify this opinion. It is something like a "Spidey sense".

One reason I think Cain will be OK on 2A is his boldness. One evidence: I love Cain's positive disdain for and mocking of the left-leaning media. In this, he resembles a Don Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney. These guys laughed at media personnel while toying with them. Diss'ing the media is the one thing YOU MAY NOT DO and still get good press. But the biased press/media is a big part of the problem and must be overcome. Newt is even better at putting the media in its place than Cain is. Same boldness and longer experience.

In short, a candidate must be able to hold to his/her principles even under public pressure. There is, day-in-and-day-out, no greater pressure group than the media, because they have the power to suppress your message (by just not reporting on you). When it comes to 2A rights, the press/media by 85-95% of headcount opposes full Constitutional 2A rights. Therefore, a candidate must be able to ignore press pressure and overcome media suppression of his/her message. Cain at least has demonstrated the fearlessness and boldness to do these things. He may not have the ways and means to execute on his boldness. Like I say: may not be ready for prime time. Give him four more years of prep and he'll be super!