Hi Skor 800-X problems in .45 ACP

[Joshua Seymour]

Back when I was very limited on what powders I could find at my LGS. I foolishly bought a pound of 800-x to satisfy my need for a powder that useable in 9mm, .44mag, and .45 acp. During my last reloading session I was loading up some cast 215 grain lrn pills for .45 acp. I set my measure to drop 7.1 grains of powder. I typically measure every 10 rounds or so, well I found that twice I had a charge of 7.4 and once a charge of 7.6. What now? The max charge for a 200 grainer is 7.7 and the max for a 230 is 7.0. No load data for this odd weighted bullet.

 

[hdwhit]

Joshua Seymour wrote:
During my last reloading session I was loading up some cast 215 grain lrn pills for .45 acp.
...
No load data for this odd weighted bullet.

Use data for 230 grain lead bullets. If your bullet weight falls between the weights in published data, the prudent thing to do is always look to the heavier bullet.

This is a link to an on-line copy of an old IMR catalog: http://stevespages.com/pdf/imr_reloading.pdf

I set my measure to drop 7.1 grains of powder. I typically measure every 10 rounds or so, well I found that twice I had a charge of 7.4 and once a charge of 7.6. What now? The max charge for a 200 grainer is 7.7 and the max for a 230 is 7.0.

Hi-Skor 800X is notorious for being difficult to meter.

When I use it (mostly for 9mm), I set up the meter to throw about a half grain light and then trickle up to the charge I want. It may be rather tedious, but doing it that way I know that every charge is measured and is correct.

If you don't want to throw light and trickle up, then consider getting a baffle for the reservoir on your powder measure.

I have also had some luck with moderately striking the powder measure with my hand when it is in the position where the measuring chamber is charging. The vibration helps ensure a consistent void ratio amongst the powder flakes and minimizes variations.

Good luck.

 

[LoneGoose]

yeah, 800X is a good performer, but difficult to meter. I don't use it much and still have plenty in the only can I bought. For me, the problem was bridging when dropping the powder. I'd get a light load, and then the next load would be extra heavy. I discovered that in my first 10 test loads! So I finished the run by tapping the powder measure with a tool with each drop. And verifying a lot with scales.

I grabbed a bottle of CFE Pistol, and it seems to work okay. TITEgroup works well, but a lot of guys worry about double-charging with it because it's so dense. Good luck.

 

[Joshua Seymour]

Would y'all recommend pulling the bullets in the loads that may be charged up to 7.6 grains? Or should I shoot them and watch for pressure?

 

[edwardware]

I believe the moniker "flaming cornflakes" accurately describes 800X; it certainly applies to the 700X I've used.

A baffle in your measure will help a bit, as will a steel cylinder measure.

 

[hdwhit]

Joshua Seymour wrote:
Would y'all recommend pulling the bullets in the loads that may be charged up to 7.6 grains?

I would pull the bullets and salvage the components. The IMR data book I linked to in Post #2, has 7.2 grains as a max load for 230 grain bullets and your bullets are 215 grain, so safety is less a concern. But it would be a waste. The load you will ultimately come up with is going to probably be a lot lighter than 7.6 grains so these won't tell you much about how the load you're hoping to develop. All you would be doing is shooting up ten or so rounds just to hear them go bang. I say pull the bullets, save the powder and load up the 7.1 grain loads you started out to load and see how they work.

You might decide that 800X is worth all the fuss.

 

[Walkalong]

700X is a fast powder and burns clean for me. I like it. I have never tried 800X because I have no application I felt it would be worth the trouble in. It has a reputation for metered terribly, and is good for full power high pressure rounds.

IMHO, it's not really suited to the low pressure of .45 ACP.

Or should I shoot them and watch for pressure?

By the time you "see" pressure in a .45 ACP case, you are way, way, over max .45 ACP pressures.

I would pull the bullets and salvage the components.

Yep.

200 Gr LSWC from Hodgdon online.

Hodgdon
800-X, .451", 1.225", 6.9, 861, 12,200 CUP, 7.7, 958, 15,700 CUP

So you are close on pressure. I am sure you can make it work, but there are so many better choices for .45 ACP I suspect it won't be a repeat purchase.

 

[243winxb]

800X - I would have started at 6.5 gr with a few rounds. 800X

What i would do, would depend on the make, model of firearm.

If you have components , load 3 each. Start 6.5 and add 3/10 gr on the next 3 , and so on, till you get to 7.6 grs. While watching for pressure signs. Then you will know if you can shoot whats already loaded.

 

[FROGO207]

I have had great success with 700X as well using 230 grain bullets. Near MAX loads it burns so clean you would think the brass was not used yet. I have a LB of 800X as well and thus far have not tried it in anything.

 

[243winxb]

As i increase the load, i look for a spider web design on the 45 acp case body. The brass will not spring back as much, if at all. I used to hot load a S&W 645 auto using Blue Dot and a 200 gr. cast.

If you new at this reloading, start pulling bullets.

 

[Joshua Seymour]

I would pull the bullets and salvage the components. The IMR data book I linked to in Post #2, has 7.2 grains as a max load for 230 grain bullets and your bullets are 215 grain, so safety is less a concern. But it would be a waste. The load you will ultimately come up with is going to probably be a lot lighter than 7.6 grains so these won't tell you much about how the load you're hoping to develop. All you would be doing is shooting up ten or so rounds just to hear them go bang. I say pull the bullets, save the powder and load up the 7.1 grain loads you started out to load and see how they work.

You might decide that 800X is worth all the fuss.

I wasn't worried much about load development with these loads as they are simply cast plinking loads. If safety isn't much of a concern, I'd rather just burn them up.

 

[rsrocket1]

I also have a pound of 800-X and found it to be incredibly consistent in MV and an excellent performer WHEN I hand trickled my test rounds. For "automated" powder drops, the only thing that worked reasonably well for "range plinking" consistency was to use a super wide drum similar to a rifle sized powder rotor. With that setup I was +/- 0.2g or a .4g spread.

 

[walnut1704]

I have had the same issue with 700X I bought during the "Great Shortage". I use an Lee AutoDisk and it was just all over the place. I got a $7 aquarium pump from Walmart and strapped it to my AutoDisk with some Velcro straps. The vibration from the pump acts as an agitator. It makes the measure throw 700X as accurate as it throws W231 without the pump.

It's worth the effort. I found 700X with a 125gr LRN to be one of the most accurate .38 Spl loads I've ever used, which was quite a surprise. It also turns out that 800X might be one of the best powders for the .41 Magnum.

 

[Demi-human]

With out a chronograph you will not be able to determine pressure. This will also not tell you what the next round will have in it.
Is your weapon rated for plus pressures? Are you certain it is only metering differences and not powder measure self adjustment?
If it were only ten I may shoot them. This is, of course foolish, will not help you in any practice and is also just what factory ammunition is.
I handload because it is just that. Every charge is the same, exactly. Every bullet seated is done so at a precise measurement. I honestly thought I would do this to save money, however slight. When my groups shrank greatly I knew it wasn't my shooting. Measure factory fodder. Then don't reproduce it.
And please wear rated safety glasses.

 

[Walkalong]

With out a chronograph you will not be able to determine pressure.

With one either. A clue, but nothing definitive.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Ken Waters had good results with 800-X in 45 ACP.
225 Carroll FN: 6.5 gr, 814 fps, near max
.........................7.0 gr, 875 fps, max, most accurate load (for that bullet)

230 Bull-X FN: 845 fps, near max, accurate

230 Carroll RN: 6.5 gr, 833 fps, near max
.........................7.0 gr, 886 fps, max, accurate

Ken also states that if he had to go with a single powder & load with lead, it would be 7.0 gr of 800-X.

With a RCBS Uniflow and baffle I have been able to get enough consistency to drop +/-0.1 gr. Those of us who have used this combination had similar results. I, too, purchased a pound in 2010, which is all but gone. It is my 2nd favorite for loading 45 Colt, right behind 4227. I will take donations, but since you can't ship powder....

 

[Demi-human]

Very true. Recoil does not affect me or my hands greatly. It is hard for me to judge the strenght of a load, other than not enough. If the first one came out at eleven hundred feet per second I would consider myself lucky and begin pulling. I can not condone such behavior as it is unnecessary risk taking. Yes, I am a bundle of hypocrisy at times.
Demi-human

 

[billybob44]

For those of you with a Dillon Powder Measure:
I have made a weight assembly to place in my Dillon powder measure that I use with IMR-800X.
It weighs about 6 OZ, and works well. My 800-X charges stay +/- .01 grain with this weight in the reservoir...Bill.

 

[Walkalong]

Interesting. 800X fans should try that.

 

[hdwhit]

Demi-Human wrote:
With out a chronograph you will not be able to determine pressure.

Even with a Chronograph, you can't directly determine pressure.

 

[Demi-human]

Even with a Chronograph, you can't directly determine pressure.

My previous post was to include Walkalong's quote. But my tablet is wonky when trying to reply with a quote. A new Acera desktop should be running later today.

When handloading I try to use the slowest powder I can. I like regular pressures in a firearm rated for +P. I am also unconcerned with efficiency or cleanliness in a powder. I am not a fan of unburnt powder, but I am tolerant of soot.

edit: Took me four tries to get this one correct.

 

[Demi-human]

For those of you with a Dillon Powder Measure:
I have made a weight assembly to place in my Dillon powder measure that I use with IMR-800X.
It weighs about 6 OZ, and works well. My 800-X charges stay +/- .01 grain with this weight in the reservoir...Bill.

Is this with a baffle in the measure as well?

 

[billybob44]

Is this with a baffle in the measure as well?

It is with the molded baffle that is in the base of all Dillon measure reservoir's.
PM me your Cell # and I will try to send you a picture if you are of interest..Bill.

 

[Bronx kid]

So you are putting the 6oz weight on top of the powder? If that helps I will give it a try with the 4lbs I picked up during the last shortage.