Like others, I enjoyed the gun shop scene - even if it was fabricated. Gault joined the Texas Rangers later in life (age 47), but had been a running buddy of Hamer's for years before that. The thing that struck me was that all the men wore coat and tie, no matter what the weather. My Dad talked about how in the 30s his father's suit was so worn out they had to use shoe polish on the pockets and cuffs where the frayed parts wouldn't show. I LUST after one of those Model 8s.
Highwaymen, the movie
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Model 8....or 81, pretty much the same, just a few changes and more flavors of food available for the 81 like 300 savage and you can still get that off the shelf. 8 is only available in the "special" remington flavors, with 35 remington being the only one that really lasted. 30 remington (not ar, think 30-30 with no rim) 25 remington (I really want one) With 25 being the most difficult to load for now....heck the brass for 30 remington is pretty hard to come by, but Graf does load for 30, not sure on the 25.
They are fun guns I have a 30 and a 300 savage....the 300 seems to be a bit much for the gun, the 30 is much more fun to shoot....I think 300 is pushing things a bit....I have now worked up a load I like for 300 yet, still working on something for the 30.
They are a very interesting design with all kinds of little lever bits on the inside, along the edges of the rec....grease is your friend here as they do tend to move around a bit as you put the thing together. Barrel is the only thing tricky on them as you really need a special tool to take the end off and get the spring out. You really don't need to do it very often, but on a new gun (to you) I would suggest it. These are sporting guns and got used in the field, you need to check the spring and barrel for rust.....it is a bit of a bear to take apart and put together....the entire gun in general....lots of little bits. And I would suggest just tossing the entire bolt into a sonic cleaner, the hose it down with lube and let it sit, if you take the bolt apart......well lets just say it really sucks.....SUCKS BAD. My advice would be if you don't need to don't do it.
Fun guns long recoil like an auto 5, so you know you are shooting something. I am pretty recoil sensitive and the 30 is not too bad even at normal loadings.....the 300 at "normal" loadings is too hot for me....and really I think to hot for a gun that is pushing 90 years old.....
IMHO you don't need to push them hard to enjoy them.
You seem to be more up on history, but I thought Gault was a ranger before they got disbanded for the only reason the Democrat gov could not buy them.....oops did that just sneak in there.....then he joined again in the mid 30's after Ma's term was over and they started the texas department of safety and the rangers are part of that office.....again as I remember. He did stay with the rangers till he retired.
I hope I don't bring the wrath of the mod's down on me, but it seems that with 3 pages of this people are interested in the HISTORY of this time, and I am one of those thick glasses wearing nerds that reads this stuff......thing of the twilight zone episode where the guy just wants to read......but I have a few sets of glasses.
As I said, Ma, and Pa fergson where the gov. of Texas, Pa got into some trouble trying to get rid of some of his political....enemies....and got nailed for it, he was impeached and could never hold a public office in Texas again....so what does every good Democrat do.....get his wife to run. And she wins. The speaches would start...Hi I Ma fergson, vote for me, here is my husband Pa.....and then he would do the rest of the talking....really...pretty shocking.
One of the first things Ma did when she got into office was to do away with the rangers....Guess who had a hand in outing Pa Fergson....bueller....bueller.....
Now that there is no state agency in Texas guess where many of the depression baddies go.....yup the wide open spaces of Texas. In short things are a mess, but Fergeson does not want any "state wide" police force....that is to hard to bribe.....err give directives to.....so into the 30's Texas is really a shelter for baddies.....you have to remember that in 1930's texas there is still a great big bucket of nothing. And little town law.....making no money in depression era times....well those small towns would basically roll out the red carpet for someone that would help put food on the table, who cares what they did in other places....people are starving.....and really have nothing. The movie touched on it a bit with the gas station scene.....These crooks are not stupid, they know that if the people are on their side it is better for them. And remember a bank haul of $6,000 may not seem like a lot but that was a HUGE amount of cash back then, remember us talking off the Monitor costing around $10,000 in todays money...that monitor sold for $500 at the time...so you could give people a $10 and they would be set for weeks.
Anyway I have rambled.....I would bet we have some texas members here and being from missouri I don't really understand your setup.....you have marshalls (not US marshalls) constables as well as the normal stuff sheriffs and city police....I think you guys have other things as well.
Sorry for the ramble, and I hope the mods are ok with this....
One of the things that I REALLY dislike about this board is threads getting cut off IMHO too soon....I fully understand threads getting shut down if the poo starts flying, but in threads like this where good info is being offered, and people really want to know and LEARN threads get killed and posts get deleted.....really a shame and it has ticked me off enough to leave for months at a time before.
Just my two bits on tons of stuff.
Thunderchicken
Member
I am always amazed at how much I don’t know. Especially when everyone else does know it. I am not much of a fan of modern military “tacticool” rifles, but when I looked up the Colt Monitor ... wow. What a fabulously cool gun. I found a link to one being auctioned—they estimate $90K to $140K. Beautiful photo, though, and looking is free. Thanks again for all the discussion. I always learn a bunch.
The link is https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/75/2586/fully-automatic-colt-r80-monitor-bar-machine-gun. Apparently I don’t understand enough about the platform here to embed the link. Maybe it isn’t supported to avoid the “where the hell does this link go?” problem.
The link is https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/75/2586/fully-automatic-colt-r80-monitor-bar-machine-gun. Apparently I don’t understand enough about the platform here to embed the link. Maybe it isn’t supported to avoid the “where the hell does this link go?” problem.
Shanghai McCoy
Member
^^^
Thanks for that picture.
That rifle looks like the "Love child" of a BAR, M-60 and Kalashnikov...
Thanks for that picture.
That rifle looks like the "Love child" of a BAR, M-60 and Kalashnikov...
theotherwaldo
Member
Yeah, we're talking about the era when President Hoover said, "All the working man needs is fifty cents a day!"
Bear that in mind when looking at the gun prices in that movie.
-And I'm just about finished with the primary work on the Model 8, even came up with some .30 Remington.
Bear that in mind when looking at the gun prices in that movie.
-And I'm just about finished with the primary work on the Model 8, even came up with some .30 Remington.
crestoncowboy
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Why was it called a Colt- Monitor. Where did Monitor come from
Shanghai McCoy
Member
Probably a reference to the ironclad ship in the civil war.
crestoncowboy
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It's sometimes hyphenated with colt so maybe another factory/ company/ or designer contributed to it. I have no idea really.
theotherwaldo
Member
Monitor USED TO mean something or someone that observes and checks the progress or quality of (something) over a period of time; keeping things under systematic review.
IOW, the over-watcher. A good name for the weapon.
-And, yes, it was made by Colt - which is probably why it didn't serve in the First World War. Colt was notoriously slow to tool up outside designs and even slower to put these designs into production.
IOW, the over-watcher. A good name for the weapon.
-And, yes, it was made by Colt - which is probably why it didn't serve in the First World War. Colt was notoriously slow to tool up outside designs and even slower to put these designs into production.
Speedo66
Member
Bill Ruger would have liked that.
codytrucker
Member
Monitor is an old time piece of mining equipment that uses water under pressure to break down ground to run thru a sluice . High pressure nozzle. If i remember right they showed one on a episode of goldrush. I think Colt was going after a "bullet hose" theme when they named it.
theotherwaldo
Member
Actually, the hydraulic mining Monitor was apparently named after the ironclad of the same name... .
What are you doing you your 8. I have been working on loads for them....I don't have my notes handy but a few different powders....everything with a round nose...basically a 30-30 bullet.
I would love to find a more accurate bullet, something a little more pointy....boat tail, and work up a recipe for that....but the leverlution bullets or whatever hornady calls their pointy bullets that are to be safe in a 30-30 tube mag all seem too long. If you go down that road let me know. I asked over on the great 8 forum, but they only came up with what I already had tried.
theotherwaldo
Member
The main problem beside neglect was that someone tried to remove the magazine with a pair of vise grips. I've dollied and burnished that sheet metal and got it to where it feeds properly (although it will never be pretty).
Now to figure out how to clean and grease it properly... .
Now to figure out how to clean and grease it properly... .
scaatylobo
Member
Only due the fact that Frank Hammer used a Remington model 8,I bought one in .35 Rem..
Then I bought the whole book & history of that gun.
Looks like mine was made in 1919,and was reblued with a nice job of it too.
Fun to shoot,too bad I cannot find OR afford the LEO magazine that was made for it.
OP
OP
tipoc
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A good piece on the Monitor from you tube's "Forgotten Weapons".
The Monitor was a special version of the BAR marketed by Colt particularly to law enforcement. lighter, about 16 pds. than the bit over 22 pds. of the military BAR.
In the video he shoots the rifle some. The Cutts compensator works well. Recoil is straight back even in full auto. A beauty. If they made them today I'd want one, 30-06 or .308 with a 20 round mag. Give it to me!
The Monitor was a special version of the BAR marketed by Colt particularly to law enforcement. lighter, about 16 pds. than the bit over 22 pds. of the military BAR.
In the video he shoots the rifle some. The Cutts compensator works well. Recoil is straight back even in full auto. A beauty. If they made them today I'd want one, 30-06 or .308 with a 20 round mag. Give it to me!
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I am reading the Epic Life of Frank Hamer book by John Boessenecker, and it says that in the 1920s one of the adjutant generals at the time (head honcho of the Rangers) had complaints from many citizens in cities that the Rangers were too scary in their cowboy outfits including sixguns and Winchesters in town. So he made a policy that Rangers in town would not wear boots, spurs, holsters or large hats. Frank started wearing suits and narrow brimmed hats and stuck Old Lucky in his pants behind his coat.
The book is very good history of Hamer from childhood onward and seems well researched and balanced, no hype or taking reports at face value, but comparing to past actions and choices, previous reports and many interviews with other Rangers and friends and family. I'm only up to about 1926 so don't know what it says yet about the B&C investigation.
Carl N. Brown
Member
... the era when President Hoover said, "All the working man needs is fifty cents a day!"
My father told me that when he worked at the saw mill in the 1930s, he made 10 cents an hour.
I wondered what could you buy for a dime?
A gallon of milk or five pounds of flour or sugar or coffee.
A little factoid on inflation: "For his novel At the Mountains of Madness published by Astounding Stories in 1936, H.P. Lovecraft had the services of an agent for the first time in his career and was paid $550.00 (2019 $9,930 adjusted for inflation)."
My father told me that when he worked at the saw mill in the 1930s, he made 10 cents an hour.
I wondered what could you buy for a dime?
A gallon of milk or five pounds of flour or sugar or coffee.
A little factoid on inflation: "For his novel At the Mountains of Madness published by Astounding Stories in 1936, H.P. Lovecraft had the services of an agent for the first time in his career and was paid $550.00 (2019 $9,930 adjusted for inflation)."
BSA1
member
I just watched a two part story about the life of Frank Hamer on youtube. It seems to be very factual.
According the story Hamer was a true two gun lawman and served as the model of a lawman that Zane Grey used in his books. Hamer carried a Colt 1911 on his left side and the Colt SAA on his right. Of course his 1911 would have had been a 45 for a long time. He said he had been in over 50 gunfights over his life.
Of course with modern gunfighting technique the best way to carry the 1911 is cocked and locked. I wonder how he carried his 1911? Given the large number of gunfights he was in it would seem unwise to carried it with a empty chamber.
The safest method of carrying the Colt SAA is with a empty chamber under the hammer but did he reduced his firepower by one round?
Interesting questions for a lawman living in rough and dangerous times.
Does the movies show him carrying both guns?
Part 2 talks about B&C;
According the story Hamer was a true two gun lawman and served as the model of a lawman that Zane Grey used in his books. Hamer carried a Colt 1911 on his left side and the Colt SAA on his right. Of course his 1911 would have had been a 45 for a long time. He said he had been in over 50 gunfights over his life.
Of course with modern gunfighting technique the best way to carry the 1911 is cocked and locked. I wonder how he carried his 1911? Given the large number of gunfights he was in it would seem unwise to carried it with a empty chamber.
The safest method of carrying the Colt SAA is with a empty chamber under the hammer but did he reduced his firepower by one round?
Interesting questions for a lawman living in rough and dangerous times.
Does the movies show him carrying both guns?
Part 2 talks about B&C;
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FlSwampRat
Member
So very rare. The amount of flat out wrong information is put out by movies it's no wonder the casual movie going member the the public doesn't know much truth about guns. They're not reading gun forums, watching videos by Hickok45, Jerry (The real Shootist) Mucilek, or even Demolition Ranch, they're watching movies that make them think guns can do all sorts of magic things.
Best thing I ever saw on television was an old episode of Miami Vice. After exchanging a few shots Crocket went into a shack, made sure the room was clear and reloaded before he really needed to just to be sure he had a full load of bullets.
FlSwampRat
Member
IMHO John Moses had a bigger influence on modern gun development than anyone else I can think of.
Coyote3855
Member
I liked the movie. Seems unusual that Hamer purchased all those firearms, but in one scene when they entered a house that B&C had already vacated, Hamer had Old Lucky and a shotgun. Gault had a SAA. If they expected to encounter heavily armed adversaries, one would think they might have packed some of those exotic weapons rather than 5-6 shot revolvers.
theotherwaldo
Member
More Bonnie-and-Clyde economics:
"Five cent cotton, forty cent meat, how in the (XXXX) can a poor man eat?"
-Bob Miller, 1932.
In 1927 the lyrics had said, "eleven cent cotton... ."
Hard times.
"Five cent cotton, forty cent meat, how in the (XXXX) can a poor man eat?"
-Bob Miller, 1932.
In 1927 the lyrics had said, "eleven cent cotton... ."
Hard times.
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