Hitch in S&W trigger?

[Styx]

I'm curious if it's normal to have a hitch in S&W triggers? By "hitch," I am referring to sort of a catch/click that's also loud and auditable (like a striker-fired reset) right before the hammer drops while shooting in DA. It's not one smooth pull, but rather, I could easily pull to the hitch and basically stage the trigger in SA before the shot, or I could pull past it. It's reminiscent of a two stage trigger.

I never paid much attention to this before until I watched the video below, and he mentioned that it's not normal or supposed to happen. I got out 4 of my S&W revolvers. The hitch is present on my 3" M60-15 and my 686+ 2.5. It's not there on my 3" 3-5-7 series 686+ or my M60 2.75" Combat Magnum. FWIW, it's not there on my Taurus M85.

[Starts at the 8:55 mark]

 

[Col. Harrumph]

I have a 624 that came with that feature; the 'smith that fixed it called it "stubbing." Starting some time in the 1970's, as I recall, S&W's quality markedly declined. Those were the Bangor Punta years and the company has never fully recovered. The craftsmen that turned out the glass-smooth actions of an earlier era had all retired and youngsters who wanted to learn the skills were not to be found. I suspect CNC and MIM technologies are what saved S&W to survive to today.

 

[Styx]

I have a 624 that came with that feature; the 'smith that fixed it called it "stubbing." Starting some time in the early 1980's, as I recall, S&W's quality markedly declined. Those were the Bangor Punta years and the company has never fully recovered. The craftsmen that turned out the glass-smooth actions of an earlier era had all retired and youngsters who wanted to learn the skills were not to be found. I suspect CNC and MIM technologies are what saved S&W to survive to today.

What exactly causes this do you know?

 

[Col. Harrumph]

I suspect it's got to do with the fitment of the trigger to the DA sear; it may be that as the hammer rises, the single action surfaces bump against each other. But I'm just guessing.

 

[UncleEd]

The Model 19 Gunblue490 is using in the above video is one, I believe,
he worked on in another video entitled "The New S&W Model 19 Classic--
A S&W Armorer's Review." Most enlightening and is a good explanation
of the changes in the S&W revolver internals.

As to the "hitch" it probably does come from a not so perfect fitting
of the internals as he states. In a normal pull through in DA, in what
I'd call a combat speed, you'll never really notice the "hitch." And
with time the parts will wear in, that is mesh, better.

I can't say I've been aware of the "hitch" on any of my older or newer
made S&Ws.

 

[Pat Riot]

I haven’t encountered an audible hitch that I can remember. Then again, I always shoot with double ear protection.
When I got my model 10 the gun was “used” but looked and felt brand new. It had a hitch in double action for a while then one day it wasn’t there anymore. It was a very light hitch.
I don’t recall any of my other S&W’s having a hitch.

 

[CajunBass]

My Model 15-2 sometimes feels like that. I guess it's the same thing. Just before comes to full back it is easy to stage just before fiiring. I wonder if that might be something PPC type shooters had done to their guns so they could stage it for a basically S/A shot, because it does seem to work that way.

The gun really likes wadcutters.

None of my others do it, nor do I remember any of the 100 or so I've owned before doing it either.

 

[fxvr5]

On S&W DA trigger pulls there are two clicks. The first click is when the cylinder stop pops out of its retracted position and hits the cylinder. This happens about 1/2 way through the pull. The second click is when the cylinder stop slides into the notch in the cylinder. This locks the cylinder in place so it is in alignment with the barrel. If you hear the second click before the hammer drops, it means your gun has good DA timing. It is desirable.

Some folks "stage" their DA pull in which they press the trigger quickly to rotate the cylinder quickly so it locks in place via the cylinder stop. Then they press slowly until it goes bang.

 

[UncleEd]

Some folks "stage" their DA pull in which they press the trigger quickly to rotate the cylinder quickly so it locks in place via the cylinder stop. Then they press slowly until it goes bang.

This but it is not a "hitch." It's just knowing when to not make a full pull-through.

 

[fxvr5]

This but it is not a "hitch."

Correct. But the OP's 'hitch' also describes the second click, not something different.

 

[Master Blaster]

Try. A couple drops of breakfree or another light gun oil in front of the cocked hammer work the action a bit and see if the hitch is still there.

 

[zeke]

If you are hitting a very hard pull consistently at the end of a da trigger pull, it may be the hand was not fit to the cylinder extractor cut outs. The hand tip should not protrude past the surface ratchet recess frame cut out (at rest). If it does extend beyond that, it is likely pushing into the ratchet after the cylinder rotation. This can lead to a sudden hardening at the end of the da trigger pull. The hand may eventually wear into the extractor lessoning this. The hand should be properly fit to not push into the bottom of the extractor wearing a groove. Open your cylinder, and carefully do a double action trigger by opening the rear lock. If the trigger pulls freely, could possibility the problem is with the hand/extractor. You can also look into the bottom of the ratchet cut outs for signs of wear.

 

[zeke]

Another possibility is if the top of the hand is slightly too high and pushing the cylinder to lock up a little early. You may be hear a "click" or "snap" of the cylinder stop before the end of the da pull, then the trigger pulls gets harder.

 

[Reinz]

I just checked 3 guns; 25-2, 14, and a 10. I found nothing.

I did not watch the video for two reasons:

One, I didn’t want to looking for something that wasn’t there or may be very insignificant.

My two experiences watching his videos were a waste.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

The S&W New Departure or "Lemon Squeezer" system has a well executed intentional "hitch" at nearly the end of the trigger travel after full lockup is achieved. This is to supplant single action and allow you to take a careful slow shot with a double action only gun. Iver Johnson DAO revolvers of the same era have this feature, but in my experience it's not nearly as smooth and crisp of a "hitch".

I've never seen a modern revolver have such a trigger, and I would suspect damage or potentially iffy gunsmithing on any example of such that I came across.

 

[Styx]

The S&W New Departure or "Lemon Squeezer" system has a well executed intentional "hitch" at nearly the end of the trigger travel after full lockup is achieved. This is to supplant single action and allow you to take a careful slow shot with a double action only gun. Iver Johnson DAO revolvers of the same era have this feature, but in my experience it's not nearly as smooth and crisp of a "hitch".

I've never seen a modern revolver have such a trigger, and I would suspect damage or potentially iffy gunsmithing on any example of such that I came across.

The weird thing is I have multiple S&W revolvers that were manufactured with in the last 5 years. 3 of them are on L-frames and one is a J-frame. Only one L-frame and the J-frame have this "feature." The others is just one long smooth pull until the hammer drops.

 

[Styx]

On S&W DA trigger pulls there are two clicks. The first click is when the cylinder stop pops out of its retracted position and hits the cylinder. This happens about 1/2 way through the pull. The second click is when the cylinder stop slides into the notch in the cylinder. This locks the cylinder in place so it is in alignment with the barrel. If you hear the second click before the hammer drops, it means your gun has good DA timing. It is desirable.

Some folks "stage" their DA pull in which they press the trigger quickly to rotate the cylinder quickly so it locks in place via the cylinder stop. Then they press slowly until it goes bang.

Yes, but when I pull the trigger in DA on the revolvers in question, they kind of lock in place so to speak at a particular spot. I pull the trigger, there are two loud clicks where the trigger. It reminds me of the feel of letting a strike-fired trigger out to reset except of course you're pulling the trigger. Then I pull more past the "break" aka hammer drop.

 

[drobs]

I've never noticed an audible / tactile click but I do like to stage the trigger when shooting Double Action with my Smith & Wesson revolvers (pre-M10, M10, and M17).
Staging the trigger allows me to re-acquire that that perfect sight pictures between shots in DA.

I think the goal with time and practice it not need to stage the trigger.

I find it's more difficult to almost impossible (for me) to stage a 5 shot or 7 shot revolver DA trigger.

 

[fastbolt]

On S&W DA trigger pulls there are two clicks. The first click is when the cylinder stop pops out of its retracted position and hits the cylinder. This happens about 1/2 way through the pull. The second click is when the cylinder stop slides into the notch in the cylinder. This locks the cylinder in place so it is in alignment with the barrel. If you hear the second click before the hammer drops, it means your gun has good DA timing. It is desirable.

Some folks "stage" their DA pull in which they press the trigger quickly to rotate the cylinder quickly so it locks in place via the cylinder stop. Then they press slowly until it goes bang.

Yep, in the revolver armorer class I took as a S&W armorer for my agency, the instructor discussed checking carry-up. Part of the check was to make sure the cylinder stop's ball popped up and fully engaged in each of the cylinder's stop notches during DA no later than hammer fall. Early carry-up was said to be fine (and I prefer it), meaning the cylinder stop's ball would click into the cylinder's stop notches before the DA hammer fell. We were told the normal spec was that it engaged in the cylinder (locking the cylinder in place) no later than hammer fall (which means you wouldn't hear it happening because of the hammer fall and firing).

There's no way to know what's happening with the OP's gun. Not without being there to inspect it in person. That said, for the sake of discussion ...

OP, if you're pulling through the DA trigger stroke so slowly that you're hearing/feeling the click of the cylinder stop's ball snapping up into a cylinder stop notch just before the hammer falls, it may just mean you're pulling through the press so slowly that if your extractor ratchets were cut so you have early carry-up, it's letting you hear/feel the cylinder stop's movement before DA hammer fall. If it were me, I'd have the gun checked by a competent smith familiar with S&W revolvers, or call the factory and see if they'll send you a shipping label for them to inspect it under warranty. Best to find out what's happening, and whether or not it requires correction. If it's a defect, they might want to correct it even if you're not the original owner. If it's due to some tinkering under the hood (you get it new?), they may want your credit card number to make the repair.

Stubbing (hammer's DA sear stubbing against the trigger's rear cam lobe) can cause problems. In older S&W's the hammer sear required fitting, and there are 3 'cuts' on the sear (long & short on the bottom, and at the top/rear) that may be involved in such fitting. In the current S&W New Model revolvers, with MIM, we were told that a factory-cut MIM hammer sear would probably drop into 90% of the guns (MIM hammers) without any further fitting. I much prefer the new tolerances and specs, myself. Less work needed.

Just my thoughts. Good luck in getting it figured out.

 

[mm93]

I've owned probably 50 S&W revolvers, with the newest being my Model 25 in .45 Colt, built in 1982. I've never had any of them have anything but glassy smooth triggers. Not sure about any newer S&W's though?