HK P30 / VP9 comparison for older female with weak hands?

[unclenunzie]

I have an older female friend who asked to try some of my pistols for home defense (not carry). With her weak and arthritic hands (she lead with that), I let her try several of mine that I thought would be easy to rack and operate.

She owns S&W 64 snub which is great, but does not want to use it for whatever reasons, and wants a semi-auto pistol.

We tried a number of my semi-autos in sub calibers for hand fit, but none actually worked for her. Keltec P32, Beretta tip up barrel (21A, tomcat), a few others, and all were too little slide to grab or tough to operate the tip up on closure, or the trigger too difficult to manage, etc.

So I reconsidered and tried some of the larger and heavier 9mms, just to see if she could operate the slide, trigger, and safety/decocker features. (recoil concerns set aside for now).

Of all things, she really liked my HK P30 v3 and has set her mind on getting one when she is able, say by end of this year. But I wonder if the VP9, which I have never held, might offer a simpler operating platform, lower price, but same exceptional quality and performance as the P30.

In particular, I wonder how the trigger pull and slide racking would compare. I showed her how to thumb-cock the P30 so as to manage the slide easier. I am looking for anyone with experience with both weapons to share their thoughts.

 

[Coal Dragger]

I've handled both, and both are very easy to manipulate the slide on. The VP9 even has the little cocking assist "ears" at the rear of the slide to help the shooter grasp the slide better for more leverage. Not sure if it takes more or less effort than the P30 with a cocked hammer. Probably very similar, but I'm pretty strong (thanks swimming and weight training!) so I don't notice much difference.

I've shot the VP9 and it's a great pistol, very soft shooter. Plus the grip panels and back strap can be changed to accommodate any hand size short of small children.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I own a VP9, and an HK45, and have handled a lot of P30's. I agree with your assessment. I think the VP9 is a little easier to operate, and the trigger is going to be easier on old fingers. However I've heard the P30 is softer shooting. It can also be had in a long slide variant.

Either would serve her very well, but I think she should handle s VP9 before deciding. The grip texture is a little different than a P30. It's less gritty. I prefer the P30 texture over the VP9.

 

[Manny]

The VP has wings on the slide to help with cocking and a much better trigger than the P30, both items that should help someone with weak hands.

 

[unclenunzie]

Thanks all, looks like we will try a VP9 in the near future. Since they both share the same mags I may be tempted to buy one also.

 

[Warp]

The VP9 over the P30 IMO. I have a VP9 and rented a P30 recently. The VP9 trigger is lighter than the double action on the P30 and its operation is more simple as there is no manual safety or decocker to have to remember to use. Also as mentioned it has the wings/ears/whatever extensions on the rear of the slide to aid with pulling the slide back.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Provided the P30's hammer is already cocked, there isn't much difference between the P30 and VP9 in effort to rack the slide or pull the trigger. Trying to rack the slide with the hammer down or pull the trigger in DA mode is going to be more of a challenge for arthritic fingers. Because of that, if she goes the P30 route I would recommend getting the P30S model with safety lever.

 

[wbbh]

The VP9 over the P30 IMO. I have a VP9 and rented a P30 recently. The VP9 trigger is lighter than the double action on the P30 and its operation is more simple as there is no manual safety or decocker to have to remember to use. Also as mentioned it has the wings/ears/whatever extensions on the rear of the slide to aid with pulling the slide back.

Pretty much my experience, I have a VP9 and a P30sk, both excellent pistols, however the P30 has a longer trigger pull.

To employ an auto for defence you must be able to do more than just rack the slide. You also need to be able to clear it if jammed, something that usually takes more strength than just racking the slide. Your friend may want more firepower and perhaps a larger grip is easier to handle for diminished grip, however the perfect auto with one bad round is worse than useless if you cannot clear the firearm. Perhaps a revolver with eight shots like a S&W Model 627 with good grips or even a pair of small revolvers.

 

[Warp]

Pretty much my experience, I have a VP9 and a P30sk, both excellent pistols, however the P30 has a longer trigger pull.

To employ an auto for defence you must be able to do more than just rack the slide. You also need to be able to clear it if jammed, something that usually takes more strength than just racking the slide. Your friend may want more firepower and perhaps a larger grip is easier to handle for diminished grip, however the perfect auto with one bad round is worse than useless if you cannot clear the firearm. Perhaps a revolver with eight shots like a S&W Model 627 with good grips or even a pair of small revolvers.

That's always an interesting topic, revolver vs semi for a non-avid shooter or somebody with weak grip. The revolver requires much less strength to simply swing the cylinder out and back AND it will never suffer from "limp wrist" or otherwise being held terribly, no failures to extract or failures to eject jamming up while working through the cylinder, no weak ammo failing to cycle the slide, a fail to fire is cured by pulling the trigger again, etc.

However, the revolver trigger is long and heavy and physically hard to pull and cocking to SA is not recommended for defense, and a DA revolver is harder to shoot/hit with.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If the P30 is selected, I'd recommend looking for one with a LEM trigger. It would be easier to shoot for someone with hand issues, with practice that is.

 

[HexHead]

If the P30 is selected, I'd recommend looking for one with a LEM trigger. It would be easier to shoot for someone with hand issues, with practice that is.

Exactly. And the P30 is softer shooting than the VP9.

 

[Warp]

Exactly. And the P30 is softer shooting than the VP9.

Among P30 variants the LEM trigger should be the easiest, yes.

Not easier than a VP9, but if she can handle one effectively she should be able to handle the other effectively as well (slight nod to VP9 due to the ears on the slide and slightly shorter lighter trigger)

I don't find the P30 to be any softer shooting.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

(slight nod to VP9 due to the ears on the slide and slightly shorter lighter trigger)

I agree.

 

[unclenunzie]

As a follow up, my friend was focused on the browning 1911 380 because the size and slide action made it easy for her to operate. She also tried a sig 238 which was too small a grip for her. She tried the walther pk380 but that wasn't something I had great confidence in. Had her give the glock 42 a chance but she couldn't reliably operate the slide.

My thoughts on reliability and manual of arms played a role in her decision, but it is of course her decision. She is very smart , just not a focused gun enthusiast. Her concerns are strictly practical for home defense. Thus I leaned toward the P30 originally, since she really liked it but the trigger may have been too tough in double action.

So, we came full circle and she has decided on a H&K VP9, which worked better for her than the P30 which she liked also. She can rack the slide multiple times in a row, the trigger was easy for her. And of course the quality and unobtrusive safety features make it a good fit for her.

She made her purchase yesterday and must wait until Thursday to pick it up.

Of course I am going to make sure she understands the inherent unforgiving nature of striker fired pistols, and will buy a kydex holster for her night table use as a gift. She's not going to carry it - just for home and maybe car. We'll get some range time together once we've gone through some VP9 specifics and get her comfortable with operating it. She's ex-army so that will help

 

[Coal Dragger]

She made an excellent choice. Since my earlier suggestion I took my own advice and acquired a VP9 LE model with the FDE frame for myself. I have become very fond of that pistol. You can let her know, not that she will care, that so far mine has proven to be 100% reliable and is showing excellent mechanical accuracy potential. As a bonus HK sights these pistols at the factory and mine shoots to the top of the front sight out to 50 yards with 115gr and 124gr bullets.

I even changed my plans of equipment for the Pat McNamara Tactical Application Practical Shooting class I attended in September. I bought a Comp-Tac Flatside kydex holster and double mag carrier and ran the VP9 on short notice. The pistol was easy to manipulate under stress, worked when it was hot and dirty, shot to the sights, and helped me capture the pistol "Certificate of Victory" on training day 1, beating out 15 other shooters including edging out Pat himself with an identical score but a tighter group.

Just help her get the grips set up for her hands if she's not familiar with the process. Anecdotally I love how the medium panels all the way round feel, but quantitatively shoot the large grips better.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Hey that's great! I think she made a great choice and will be happy with her VP9 for many years. Ive not had a single hiccup with mine and enjoy shooting it immensely.

 

[unclenunzie]

We went to the range this past weekend and I am happy to report she did fine with the VP9.

First at home we did safety and function review, and dry practice. We fitted the backstrap and side panels for her comfort and trigger reach.

I was a little concerned about recoil, so to acclimate her I had her first try my 22LR bobcat with minimags. She liked it well enough and after a few mags we moved on to the VP9. We ran some typical range fodder through it and at 7 yards she was on target enough to be effective, imho. As usual with any new shooter I stayed close by and gave pointers - and was very happy that she never did anything unsafe (muzzle always downrange, trigger discipline, etc).

Last thing we did was shoot some standard pressure gold dots from a new box of mine. After we were done she was given a full magazine from that same box and instructed for at-home charging of her new home defense weapon, keeping it in her kydex holster for immediate use. Ordinarily I would want to see several hundred rounds from the same lot before depending on it, but being top tier makers I feel she is OK with H&K and Speer.

This Friday she wants to go shooting again, and has expressed interest in doing a lot more shooting regularly to improve her skills. We will take her 84 year old uncle with us since he will be in town for the season, and is bringing his .38 Special with him.

Shooting is more fun when shared!