HK VP9SK LE sight picture at greater distances

[Kite Okoh]

Hello all

I just bought a HK VP9SK LE with the Meprolight TRU DOT night sights. From my observations I think the HK Manual on the VP9 indicates that at a distance of 25m the POA equals the POI at the top of the front sight blade---so I could use a #2 sight picture at 25 yards to 50 yards.

From contact distance to about 25 yards I think it is a combat sight picture (drive the dot). Can anyone confirm that this is their experience and understanding of the HK manual. I would like to keep the night sights on my VP9sk as my EDC even though all my other pistols run dawson precision sights which are all a "cut the target in half" POA POI using top of front sight blade.

I regularly take classes where we shoot pistols out to 50 yards on USPSA targets--and I can do this easily with competition sights but would like to take a course using my EDC with stock factory night sights. The HK VP9 is an incredibly accurate platform!

Thanks for your input.

 

[ATLDave]

I mean... I think you're just going to have to try this out for yourself with your particular gun and ammunition combo.

 

[Kite Okoh]

Indeed--I have and my experience is as described in my post (with 115gr -147gr). Looking to confirm if others (who actually shoot pistols past 20 yards) have similar experience and therefore understand the HK VP9 manuals section on sight regulation like I do--which is that at 25 Meters the POI is the top of front sight blade using a #2 sight picture. Inside of 25 yards it is drive the dot.

Thx!

 

[ATLDave]

I'm still puzzled. The bullet hits in relation to the sights where the bullet hits in relation to the sights... what difference does it make what the manual says?

 

[Kite Okoh]

The HK customer service rep actually said that the general sight regulation for the HK VP9 is a combat hold (#3 sight picture). Most customers who read the manual conclude that the sights require a #2 sight picture at all distances (you can google the HK VP9 manual and see what HK shows for sight picture). My experience shows that the combat hold is indeed true from contact distance to about 20 yards. Beyond this, and as the manual indicates, at 25 m (and in my testing out to 50 yards on 8" steel) the sights are a #2 sight picture.

Two things:

1.) this inquiry is simply to see if others have a similar experience as mine
2) I know exactly how my sights are regulated on all my other pistols --which all either have Dawson Precision or Frank Proctor Y notch sights. I am simply looking to do the same with this pistol which will be my EDC and only pistol with night sights.

Thx

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I have to admit, I'm kind of confused here. All of my HK's including my VP9 full size and my P30SK have a Sight Picture 3 orientation, as in "drive the dot". POI with 115 gr ammo out to roughly 20 +/- yards or so corresponds to that sight picture. It raises slightly with 124 gr ammo at close ranges, perhaps a bit between sight picture 2 and 3, but not enough to matter in a self defense situation.

With 115 gr ammo, I aim slightly higher when getting out to 20-30 yard shooting because bullet drop causes the POI to drop slightly.
If I'm shooting 124 grain ammo I don't typically need to aim much higher, at all because the raised POI of the heavier bullet seems to get me close enough on my POI that Sight Picture 3 still works fine.
I have not shot 147 gr ammo from either gun.

I guess I don't understand how you would have a POA/POI correlation with sight picture 3 at close range, and then when you get further out have it correspond to sight picture 2, as sight picture two would mean you are holding lower at greater distance. Is the higher POI with heavier ammo that noticeable at those distances?

I'm not a bullseye shooter, and don't usually shoot much past 35 or 40 yards. What am I not getting here?

 

[Kite Okoh]

I have to admit, I'm kind of confused here. All of my HK's including my VP9 full size and my P30SK have a Sight Picture 3 orientation, as in "drive the dot". POI with 115 gr ammo out to roughly 20 +/- yards or so corresponds to that sight picture. It raises slightly with 124 gr ammo at close ranges, perhaps a bit between sight picture 2 and 3, but not enough to matter in a self defense situation.

With 115 gr ammo, I aim slightly higher when getting out to 20-30 yard shooting because bullet drop causes the POI to drop slightly.
If I'm shooting 124 grain ammo I don't typically need to aim much higher, at all because the raised POI of the heavier bullet seems to get me close enough on my POI that Sight Picture 3 still works fine.
I have not shot 147 gr ammo from either gun.

I guess I don't understand how you would have a POA/POI correlation with sight picture 3, and then when you get further out have it correspond to sight picture 2, as sight picture two would mean you are holding lower at greater distance. IS the higher POI with heavier ammo that noticeable at those distances?

I'm not a bullseye shooter, and don't usually shoot much past 35 or 40 yards. What am I not getting here?

You are correct to say that a sight #3 orientation is true for your HK VP9 (and other HK pistols using the same sights)

What I did with an NRA B8 target at 25 yards was cut the target in half with my sights (equal height and equal light between front and rear) and my POI was around top of the front sight blade. I then shot 8" steel plates at 50 yards and used the same sight picture #2 and consistently made hits on steel. I tried a sight picture #3 and was often overshooting the steel at 50 yards. My VP9SK has the Meprolight night sights that come with the LE version.

For defensive purposes out to 25 yards either sight picture will be fine--I am just not a "combat accuracy" is fine shooter--I find that term is used as code for "I suck" and this, in my experience, has unfortunately included LE folks who don't get the best training through their departments. Most shooters I know cannot shoot pistols well at distances past 20 yards. No one can guarantee anyone that they will never have to use a pistol in self defense past 20 yards and need not worry about pistol accuracy at greater distances. Others are free to do what they want of course--I start all my range sessions shooting Kyle Defoors Hat Qual --which is at 25 yards.

Thanks sir!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

No one can guarantee anyone that they will never have to use a pistol in self defense past 20 yards and need not worry about pistol accuracy at greater distances.

I agree. Aim small, miss small. I regularly practice shooting out to 30 yards with my carry guns indoors, and further out doors.

I guess I still find you experience a little counter intuitive to my own, unless I am misunderstanding you. Which may be the case.

Which weight were you shooting at longer distances, or did you see this with all your different weight ammo?

 

[Kite Okoh]

I agree. Aim small, miss small. I regularly practice shooting out to 30 yards with my carry guns indoors, and further out doors.

I guess I still find you experience a little counter intuitive to my own, unless I am misunderstanding you. Which may be the case.

Which weight were you shooting at longer distances, or did you see this with all your different weight ammo?

This was true for 115gr--147gr. How do you interpret the HK VP9 manual that shows the point of impact (the zero of the sights) at 25 meters (27 yards) to be the top of the front sight blade?

By the way, if you have not, try the Federal American Eagle 147 gr flat tip rounds in your VP9--it is a very accurate load--especially in 9mm barrels with 1:10 twist rates with polygonal rifling. Examples are the Walther PPQ and Glocks. I am not sure if FN barrels are polygonal but any 1:10 twist barrel will shoot the AE 147Gr flat tip very accurately--especially at distance. This is true in my Sigs and CZs out to 80 yards.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

This was true for 115gr--147gr. How do you interpret the HK VP9 manual that shows the point of impact (the zero of the sights) at 25 meters (27 yards) to be the top of the front sight blade?

By the way, if you have not, try the Federal American Eagle 147 gr flat tip rounds in your VP9--it is a very accurate load--especially in 9mm barrels with 1:10 twist rates with polygonal rifling. Examples are the Walther PPQ and Glocks. I am not sure if FN barrels are polygonal but any 1:10 twist barrel will shoot the AE 147Gr flat tip very accurately--especially at distance. This is true in my Sigs and CZs out to 80 yards.

I'll give those a try.

Honestly I didn't even notice that in the manual, but it's been awhile since I read it. On a fixed sight gun I look to see if there's a general sight alignment description, and then I experiment when I get further out to see what that gun does with different ammo and bullet weights.

 

[cougar1717]

My experience is with a VP9 (not the sk). When shooting clay targets on the far berms or other reactionary targets at distance, I use sight image #2. Targets are between 50 and 100 yards. The caveat is that fixed sights are just that... fixed. The sights are set for a specific hold, at a specific distance, with a specific bullet weight, at a specific velocity. Not all ammo of a specific bullet weight has the same exit velocity from every manufacturer. In fact, there can be significant differences and that affects your hold. Just like anything, consistent ammo produces consistent results, but it's going to take actual testing to figure out exactly what your hold should be at a particular distance. For instance, you may need to hold higher than sight image #2 at say, 70 yards or further, but the only way to know that is to actually shoot it. Forum information may give you some pointers, but it can't replace actual testing.

 

[Kite Okoh]

My experience is with a VP9 (not the sk). When shooting clay targets on the far berms or other reactionary targets at distance, I use sight image #2. Targets are between 50 and 100 yards. The caveat is that fixed sights are just that... fixed. The sights are set for a specific hold, at a specific distance, with a specific bullet weight, at a specific velocity. Not all ammo of a specific bullet weight has the same exit velocity from every manufacturer. In fact, there can be significant differences and that affects your hold. Just like anything, consistent ammo produces consistent results, but it's going to take actual testing to figure out exactly what your hold should be at a particular distance. For instance, you may need to hold higher than sight image #2 at say, 70 yards or further, but the only way to know that is to actually shoot it. Forum information may give you some pointers, but it can't replace actual testing.

Thanks a lot! Your experience matches mine in actual field testing. I prefer #2 sight picture beyond 25 yards because I can still see half of the target at distance even with night sights which have front sight widths in the 0.140" range and larger. I think I will keep the stock LE tru dot night sights on the VP9SK, which I intend to use as a replacement EDC for my SIg P320C with a blacked out rear and fiber optic front.

 

[Hookeye]

Can you get an adj rear and just set it for what you want?

Got a text. Guy has P30.....says its a P30L w 8 mags.....wants 500 bucks. Was wanting a P30LS but for that price i might snag it
Will proly go sig romeo reflex on it.

 

[Hookeye]

Make it range toy/ truck gun

 

[Coal Dragger]

Go shoot the pistol. The manual is only a guideline of what HK expects the POA=POI to be with whatever ammo they use to develop or function test the pistol. Every ammo and every barrel are a law unto themselves, the only way to see what you have is to go shoot. I’m not sure why this concept is so difficult but so many shooters can’t seem to comprehend it.

 

[Hookeye]

Ones grip also influences impact. I tend to hold lighter than some. But im also very consistent.

BTW i pick up my P30L on Friday

 

[Hookeye]

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