Hodgdon H335 and 62 grain pills in 5.56

[goldpelican]

I have both Hornady FMJ (flattish bottom with concave) and Hornady BTHP match bullets in 62 grains. The Lee manual doesn't offer 62g load data for H335 (but they do have 60g and 63g), and I'm finding some wildly different published loads.

Lee - 60g jacketed - 22.5 to 24.0 grains
Hodgdon - 62g Scirroco - 19.3 to 21.4 grains
Hornady - 60g jacketed - 20.1 to 22.9 grains
Hornady - 62g jacketed - 20.1 to 22.9 grains
Lee - 63g jacketed - 22.5 to 25.0 grains.

The Lee loads feel hot! Their starting loads of 22.5 grains is over Hodgdon's max load, and just under Hornady's max loads for similar bullets.

Will be shooting out of an AR with 16" 1 in 7 barrel.

Thoughts?

 

[Blue68f100]

Work the load up as you should. Doing so you will find the optimum load for you gun.

 

[goldpelican]

Work the load up as you should. Doing so you will find the optimum load for you gun.

Thanks - but "working up the load" from Lee data would be starting over the max load from other published loads. Hence my request for some input.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I think what he was suggesting was to start with the lower figures.

The fact that you caught this is a reason that folks suggest multiple sources. I check them then when something seems out of whack I double, triple and quadruple check.

As for the initial question it seems that you have a very common setup (I have a similar AR aka 16" with 1:7 twist). Not having loaded any 62 grain yet I haven't worked up a load yet. But I'd go to the various sources, look at the start loads and the max loads. I'd pick the average of the start loads (minus the load you say is over the other max) and work up from there.

 

[goldpelican]

It's a little frustrating when a quick Google for "h335 62g 223" shows a lot of people claiming around 25g of H335 (or even 26g), which is the max of the max published loads I found. It's a popular powder so I'm surprised to see that common "works for me" loadings are so hot compared to published data. Starting at 19.3 is only 77% of 25g, which is a huge range to work up in .2g or .3g increments.

Does Hodgdon have a reputation for publishing conservative data?

 

[Reloadron]

The .223 Remington (5.56 NATO) is just one of those cartridges which lends itself well to a wide range of powders, including H335. It is also one of those cartridges which seems to have a wide range of load data weights for any given powder. Take a look at what you posted. The Sierra 50th Anniversary Edition for a 62 grain bullet H335 starts with 23.0 grains and has a maximum of 25.9 grains. Test barrel was a Colt H-Bar 20" having a 1:7 twist. Common sense prevails with starting low and working your way up as to charge. Additionally different bullets will have different amounts of bullet in case when seated resulting in different pressures. Take note of how the rifle feels and look for any visible signs of pressure while also seeing what load(s) shoot well as to accuracy. Anyway, what you are seeing is not at all unusual and pretty common with the .223 Remington (5.56 NATO).

Ron

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have both Hornady FMJ (flattish bottom with concave) and Hornady BTHP match bullets in 62 grains. The Lee manual doesn't offer 62g load data for H335 (but they do have 60g and 63g), and I'm finding some wildly different published loads.

Lee - 60g jacketed - 22.5 to 24.0 grains
Hodgdon - 62g Scirroco - 19.3 to 21.4 grains
Hornady - 60g jacketed - 20.1 to 22.9 grains
Hornady - 62g jacketed - 20.1 to 22.9 grains
Lee - 63g jacketed - 22.5 to 25.0 grains.

The Lee loads feel hot! Their starting loads of 22.5 grains is over Hodgdon's max load, and just under Hornady's max loads for similar bullets.

Will be shooting out of an AR with 16" 1 in 7 barrel.

Thoughts?

I feel safest using data from the powder manufacturer followed by the bullet manufacturer. Lee's data is not tested by Lee, it is data collected from other publications.

When loading a 62gr bullet it is safe to use data for a 63gr bullet of the same type and profile. It is much better to use the 63gr bullet load data than data for a 60gr bullet. The 60gr bullet data will be higher than that of a 63gr bullet leaving a safety margin for the 62gr bullet load.

I would not use the data for a 62g Scirroco bullet for a Hornady FMJ bullet. I would use the data provided by Hodgdon for the 63gr Sierra bullet. The H335 data from the most current Nosler manual for a 60/62gr bullet matches the data for a 63gr Sierra bullet on the Hodgdon site.

 

[Hardtarget]

If you're still looking, try Tac. I've been there for a while with a 24.2 gr load. Sierra list a 63 gr with 24.8 as max. I'm not going any higher.

Mark

 

[goldpelican]

I feel safest using data from the powder manufacturer followed by the bullet manufacturer. Lee's data is not tested by Lee, it is data collected from other publications.

When loading a 62gr bullet it is safe to use data for a 63gr bullet of the same type and profile. It is much better to use the 63gr bullet load data than data for a 60gr bullet. The 60gr bullet data will be higher than that of a 63gr bullet leaving a safety margin for the 62gr bullet load.

I would not use the data for a 62g Scirroco bullet for a Hornady FMJ bullet. I would use the data provided by Hodgdon for the 63gr Sierra bullet. The H335 data from the most current Nosler manual for a 60/62gr bullet matches the data for a 63gr Sierra bullet on the Hodgdon site.

Thanks for the tip - I had not looked up any 63g loads on the Hodgdon website, but was aware of the ability to use a slightly lighter bullet with the load data given for a slightly heavier bullet. Surprise surprise - 63g on Hodgdon matches the Lee loading of 22.5g to 25.0g. So between Hornady and Hodgdon the range looks to be 20.1 to 25.0g of H335.

I ended up loading a number of trimmed cases with 22g, 22.5g, 23g, 23.5g and 24g with the FMJs. Will work from the bottom up, look for pressure signs, and see what groups the best. That will give me a starting point to bracket in say 0.2g increments to see if there's a sweet spot, and then fiddle with OAL from there if necessary. I've started with an OAL of 2.22 as that was where the cannelure landed on a case trimmed to 1.75". I know the crimp doesn't need to be in the cannelure, but it felt like a good starting point that fell between minimum OAL and 2.26 which is the max for a standard AR magazine.

 

[ponchh]

I have both Hornady FMJ (flattish bottom with concave) and Hornady BTHP match bullets in 62 grains. The Lee manual doesn't offer 62g load data for H335 (but they do have 60g and 63g), and I'm finding some wildly different published loads.

Lee - 60g jacketed - 22.5 to 24.0 grains
Hodgdon - 62g Scirroco - 19.3 to 21.4 grains
Hornady - 60g jacketed - 20.1 to 22.9 grains
Hornady - 62g jacketed - 20.1 to 22.9 grains
Lee - 63g jacketed - 22.5 to 25.0 grains.

The Lee loads feel hot! Their starting loads of 22.5 grains is over Hodgdon's max load, and just under Hornady's max loads for similar bullets.

Will be shooting out of an AR with 16" 1 in 7 barrel.

Thoughts?

They feel hot because you are over gased, you are over gased becaused barrel makers don't want to get calls from people that shoot the cheapest third world ammo they can find. So you get to buy a $100 + gas block to fix it.

 

[goldpelican]

I meant they felt hot in comparison to other loading data - I have not fired these loads yet.

 

[RedLeg105]

FWIW, I shoot both an AR15 (With a .223 Wylde chamber and 1:9 twist), and a CZ 527 in .223 Remington (1:9 twist). I have found that they both really like Nosler Varmaggedon, 62gr,.FBHPs loaded with 23.5gr of H335, and standard small rifle primers. These are no where near maximum loads, but they are capable of <1" groups, at 100 yards, out of both of my rifles...

( IIRC, the NATO load for 62gr bullets is 26.1 gr of WC844 - Which is the non-canister version of H335. See http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/MILITARY/united_states_army_tm_43-0001-27 - 29_april_1994.pdf, page 170 of 325.)

 

[ponchh]

I meant they felt hot in comparison to other loading data - I have not fired these loads yet.

I am loading hornady 60 gr sp at 24.5 2.238 I think you have some wiggle room left, but that's just me. My barrel is 5.56 my brass 5.56 so I load to 5.56 but the the rifle I'm loading for likes em hot and contrary to popular belief likes the long jump.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

I have both Hornady FMJ (flattish bottom with concave) and Hornady BTHP match bullets in 62 grains. The Lee manual doesn't offer 62g load data for H335 (but they do have 60g and 63g), and I'm finding some wildly different published loads.

Lee - 60g jacketed - 22.5 to 24.0 grains
Hodgdon - 62g Scirroco - 19.3 to 21.4 grains
Hornady - 60g jacketed - 20.1 to 22.9 grains
Hornady - 62g jacketed - 20.1 to 22.9 grains
Lee - 63g jacketed - 22.5 to 25.0 grains.

The Lee loads feel hot! Their starting loads of 22.5 grains is over Hodgdon's max load, and just under Hornady's max loads for similar bullets.

Will be shooting out of an AR with 16" 1 in 7 barrel.

Thoughts?

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle