Holsters and Carry Methods: pros and cons

[BSA1]

Mexican carry most of the time wherever is most comfortable. When I need more security (pants a little loose) I use a shoestring. Rubber bands around the grip helps sometimes also.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

So, you reach all the way across your body and lift your shirt or jacket with your weak hand?

I have long arms and it's a reach to get around to 4 o'clock to sweep up a cover shirt or coat...

Yes. Raising one's shirt isn't some neat, prissy action...it's a rapid, no-frills, extreme lifting of the shirt far enough to completely clear any possibility of hampering the draw. You don't need to reach directly over the pistol to do so.

I yank my shirt up high and then yank it in tight against my body with my weak hand as I reach and draw with my strong hand. There is absolutely no need for me to do any kind of body contortion to do this.

 

[Sam1911]

I've written a few things on holsters before. I'll quote a few:

On Small-Of-Back rigs:

Maybe consider honestly the reasons you DO carry "SOB" style. Make sure you really have to. There are some very good reasons not to.

Perhaps the least important of them is that it is (maybe the) one position where other folks really CAN tell better than you that you're carrying (printing).

Others are the risks of sweeping one's side/hips/kidneys when drawing from back around there (worse with the inverted SOBs than the more standard style), the fact that most ranges and training facilities won't let you practice with them because of risk to yourself and others, the risks of spine and other damage from falling on that hard object held against your vulnerable back, the inevitable discomfort while sitting and/or driving, the lack of access when sitting and/or driving, and, of course, the constant printing and cover garment riding up when you bend/move/sit/stand/stretch, etc.

SOB carry has several big draw-backs.

1) Injury: You are placing a bulky metal object against your spine, or kidneys. A fall onto, or blow against, that gun almost certainly will cause more pain and injury than it otherwise would have. If the fall is hard enough, it could do permanent damage. A gun on your hip (3:30-4:00 position) doesn't cause that concern.

2) Discomfort: If you sit at a desk, or drive anywhere, that gun is going to be very painful to sit on for long.

3) Printing: If you always stand straight up, you may conceal your gun well this way. The moment you sit on a bench or other backless seat, squat, bend, twist, reach for something, etc. the small of your back stretches your clothing tight in that area. You WILL print, and print worse than any other location you might carry. If you carry under a jacket or un-tucked shirt, SOB carry causes the outer garment to hang up on the gun and many folks who've tried it found that their jacket would creep up and begin to tuck itself in behind the gun as they moved around -- eventually leaving the gun completely exposed with the cover garment bunched up on top of it or even behind it.

4) Draw: Drawing from an SOB holster invites a tremendous safety violation. It is difficult to execute a draw that does not encourage/require you to sweep your own waist/hips/kidneys/pelvic girdle with the muzzle as you move the gun around in front of you. There are two types of SOB holster -- one butt-forward, one butt-back like an exaggerated OWB holster. The butt-forward version is much worse for this as you're trying to rotate the gun as well as draw it forward. Many ranges and trainers do not allow SOBs just for this reason. When you're trying to grab your gun, disengage the safety, and get on target for a fast shot, no portion of that operation should put your own body in front of the muzzle!

(Of course, no operation EVER should put part of your body in front of your own loaded gun ... but especially grabbing for a defensive sidearm in a moment of panic.)

 

[Sam1911]

On shoulder holsters:

Here's a really detailed thread on shoulder holsters, pros and cons: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7901579&highlight=shoulder+holster#post7901579

Some other comments:

The two options I'd suggest for a delivery/taxi driver or anyone who spends more than 50% of their day in a car would be either a vertical shoulder holster or a cross-draw belt holster. Either of those options gives up a lot to a strong-side belt holster for "normal" use, in concealment, comfort, and security and speed of draw, but they do unquestionably beat the car-seat problem.

The two biggest downsides I can see are that it is very easy to have your draw blocked or pinned completely by an adversary who manages to grapple with you or back you against a wall -- and that it is very difficult to get the kind of regular practice in that is so vital to self-defense. Most ranges will prohibit that kind of a holster as you're inherently sweeping bystanders, the line, and even yourself on the draw (without some pretty gymnastic contortions). If you can find a range with 360 degree pits/berms so you can get the practice you need on a regular basis, go for it!

If you need to carry a very large gun, the shoulder holster is a bit easier to do that with than most belt holsters.

If you're sitting down and/or driving during most of the times when you might need to be able to get the gun in a hurry, the shoulder holster again can be more advantageous than other designs, depending on several factors.

As for disadvantages, they tend to "print" worse than most folks believe, especially the horizontal versions. They tend to trade weight at the belt for weight on the shoulders, which isn't always a good thing. They also are hard to practice with easily as few ranges and NO competition venues allow their use due to the near impossibility of drawing without committing a muzzle-direction violation and/or sweeping other shooters and sometimes yourself.

On the other hand, they're really good if you're going for a vintage '70s'-'80s cop show look.

A down-side that has not been mentioned in this thread (although it has been covered in all the other shoulder holster threads recently) is that the draw-stroke from a shoulder holster (and, again from a cross-draw) is also the most easily blocked under certain circumstances.

If an attack comes up close, and/or the attacker manages to get his arms around you or a hand on your strong arm, it becomes quite difficult to draw the gun and get it pointed the right way. If you place your arm flat across your chest like you're drawing from a shoulder holster and have someone hold that arm tightly, you'll find that it is pretty easy for that person to keep your arm pinned.
Further, if an attacker was to get you in a close grapple, with his body against yours, you'd have little chance to get your firing hand between your bodies to even get to the gun.

There are techniques which can be practiced to fight through those situations with some degree of success, but none of them will be as fast or as natural as drawing a gun from a holster at your waist on the strong side -- a move that is very difficult to block.

Certainly, not everyone who carries worries that attacks will happen up close like this and most probably assume that they'll have ample time and space to draw the gun.

Just something to consider.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Alrighty, here's my own review:

I have a Galco N3 IWB for my full sized Colt 1991A1.

Pros:

Black leather with a sweat guard that I really like: it keeps the upper slide/trigger off my body when I'm wearing it against my skin under a shirt.

The upper leather around the mouth is reinforced to help in reholstering.

Cons:

The holster has a single belt loop which, though it's offset, allows the holster to shift more than I'd like. Sometimes this leads me to make adjustments that I shouldn't have to do while carrying concealed.

The angle of the holster is critical when drawing my gun, which makes shifting of the holster doubly troubling for me. Proper holster positioning has the gun angled forward for ease of draw...if the holster shifts to a more vertical position, then drawing the 1911 style out of the holster tends to drag the top of the slide across the mouth of the holster, which may result in the edge of the ejection port momentarily snagging on the leather.

The holster is open on the barrel end, and my full sized pistol sticks out about 1/2 inch. Not a problem...unless I'm at the range and shooting my pistol a lot and forget about this when I reholster a smoking hot gun. The pictures on the Galco website did not show the pistol barrel extending past the bottom of the holster. And yes, I did get the correct holster at the LGS.

Other:

The holster has no retention strap. While I do not consider this a problem, based on the way the holster is designed and the fact that it's an IWB holster, some people may not like this.

Price:

I bought mine at a LGS for about $80, same as the Galco site. Fair price for similar holsters.


Recommendation:

Not a bad holster if I weren't carrying for self-defense. However, I would not buy another one based on the issues with the holster shifting and causing issues with adjustments that shouldn't be made and in drawing my gun. I will eventually replace this holster with another.

If I replace this with another Galco, I'd consider their V-Hawk IWB. It's got two belt loops, which will positively maintain proper position, and the bottom of the holster is not open ended.


Links to the N3 and V-Hawk holsters:

http://www.galcogunleather.com/n3-iwb-holster_8_7_1215.html

http://www.galcogunleather.com/v-hawk-iwb-holster_8_7_1330.html

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have a Galco N3... The holster has a single belt loop which, though it's offset, allows the holster to shift more than I'd like.

Unfortunately this seems to be a problem with many Galco holsters. It has been my experience that they size their belt loops to fit a wide range of belt widths so as not to have to offer different sized loops for customers.

The N2 is a clone of the Mitch Rosen ARG, which is a very stable holster. Referring back to the other thread (mentioned in your OP) this holster falls into the catagory which is designed to move a bit, at the front, for comfort when sitting.

The placement of the rear mounted loop is meant to pull the gun butt in. For something more stable, you can look at the ARG-DL



The Galco V-hawk in a clone of the Spark's VM II which fills the other end of the IWB spectrum is the widespread loops and leather wings spreading the weight and stabilizing the holster on the belt

 

[JTQ]

RetiredUSNChief wrote,
The holster is open on the barrel end, and my full sized pistol sticks out about 1/2 inch. Not a problem...unless I'm at the range and shooting my pistol a lot and forget about this when I reholster a smoking hot gun. The pictures on the Galco website did not show the pistol barrel extending past the bottom of the holster. And yes, I did get the correct holster at the LGS.

Like you, that the slide extends beyond the bottom of the holster would surprise me, especially considering the link you gave to Galco's site. They show what looks like a 5" 1911 sitting in an N3, and the slide does not extend beyond the bottom of the holster. in addition, they also show a different holster listed, in the drop down menu, for a 3", 4.25", and 5" 1911's leading me to believe they make different size holsters. All of this would lead me to suspect you did receive the wrong size holster. It was possibly put in the wrong bag before shipping. If the holster is fairly new, I'd check with Galco.

The holster has no retention strap. While I do not consider this a problem, based on the way the holster is designed and the fact that it's an IWB holster, some people may not like this.

Is there a significance to the holster being IWB without a retention strap? There are some IWB holster's with retention straps, but there are not many. Usually, a retention strap is not needed for IWB carry as they are well concealed and the pressure of the belt on the holster body provides extra retention.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Thanks, 9mmepiphiny! Those other holsters look mighty attractive in design! I'll check them out!

Sam1911: Thanks a bunch for taking the time to post on SOB and shoulder holsters! I got a lot of valuable information there.

Like you, that the slide extends beyond the bottom of the holster would surprise me, especially considering the link you gave to Galco's site. They show what looks like a 5" 1911 sitting in an N3, and the slide does not extend beyond the bottom of the holster. in addition, they also show a different holster listed, in the drop down menu, for a 3", 4.25", and 5" 1911's leading me to believe they make different size holsters. All of this would lead me to suspect you did receive the wrong size holster. It was possibly put in the wrong bag before shipping. If the holster is fairly new, I'd check with Galco.

Is there a significance to the holster being IWB without a retention strap? There are some IWB holster's with retention straps, but there are not many. Usually, a retention strap is not needed for IWB carry as they are well concealed and the pressure of the belt on the holster body provides extra retention.

I've had the Galco for a couple years now, so probably not an option for replacement at this time.

As for IWB without a retention strap, it's my opinion (like yours) that a retention strap for this particular design (which is a form-fitted holster) combined with being IWB makes it much less susceptible to the gun falling out during movement (which is my primary concern). Others have hailed a retention strap as something that hinders attempts of others to snatch the weapon. Again, I think the holster design combined with IWB discourages this possibility as well.

And, internet opinions from strangers being what they are, others can take my opinion for whatever it's worth to them!

 

[JTQ]

Certainly, if I were open carrying, I'd look for some kind of retention device. However, for any concealed carry holster, either IwB or OWB, I don't think they are needed.

Spending some time on forums listening to guys asking for ways to loosen up their holsters so they can just draw the pistol out of them (and experiencing it myself) is all I need to know that a retention device is not usually needed. "Wedgie" level of retention is probably good enough for the concealed carry user.

 

[Sam1911]

I'll add another note that I've posted many times:

I can conceal a 1911 in cargo shorts and a tucked in polo shirt. My "deep concealment" rig is this that member Joel made this for me early in his holster-making career:



Very comfortable and VERY tuckable. Only the straps show when I've got a t-shirt or polo tucked in around the gun.

If the grip seems obvious, try darker patterns and colors. Actually, a TUCKABLE IWB is even better than untucked as the shirt naturally blouses at the waistband and conceals very, very well.

Same basic idea as the Sparks Versa Max, but more tuckable, and with more "wings".

The extra material seems to make it even more comfortable.

I'd be telling no lie at all to say I often feel that this IWB holster is MORE comfortable than an OWB pancake holster. How that exactly happens, I can't say, but it sure feels like it.

As for retention, I've carried in that holster in a rollover car wreck and on multiple loop-the-loop type roller coasters over the years without a wiggle. If I wanted a holster for hanging upside down all day, I'd pick this one probably OVER a thumb-break.

 

[NewGuy1911]

"I'm surprised you didn't find a thread on this subject. I remember engaging in a rather long thread about carry positions on this forum."

9mmepiphany, might you post a link?

 

[9mmepiphany]

I did a quick search and couldn't find it...so, most likely is was on Sigforum. Which means that it has likely been pruned...they delete everything every few months.

I guess we'll see what fruit this thread bears

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Unfortunately this seems to be a problem with many Galco holsters. It has been my experience that they size their belt loops to fit a wide range of belt widths so as not to have to offer different sized loops for customers.

The N2 is a clone of the Mitch Rosen ARG, which is a very stable holster. Referring back to the other thread (mentioned in your OP) this holster falls into the catagory which is designed to move a bit, at the front, for comfort when sitting.


The placement of the rear mounted loop is meant to pull the gun butt in. For something more stable, you can look at the ARG-DL

The Galco V-hawk in a clone of the Spark's VM II which fills the other end of the IWB spectrum is the widespread loops and leather wings spreading the weight and stabilizing the holster on the belt

Hmmm...I hadn't given thought to the belt/holster size relationship as being critical to holster placement with respect to shifting around. I'll have to look into that. I am in need of a decent belt geared towards holsters...what I have now isn't really suitable at all for this, and I know it.

I looked at both the Mitch Rosen and the Milt Sparks sites to see what they have. I'm really interested in the Milt Sparks Versa Max 2. It looks to be far more comfortable with a potentially flatter profile because there is no belt loop on the body of the holster itself.

I'm squirreling away some funds for a new holster, and a belt to go along with it, and so far I'm thinking Milt Sparks might be awarded the winning contract of all the different sites I've been looking through!

 

[9mmepiphany]

While I haven't always followed my own advice, I usually recommend that folks purchase holsters, magazine carriers, and belts from makers as a set. Unless you have a pretty good handle on different makers or have very particular preferences, getting a set insures that everything will be optimized for fit and stability.

I remember a holster maker, who used to make his 1.5" holster slots a "bit tight" for acceptable stability on 1.25" belts. This allowed for production variations and the natural shrinkage of different cuts of leather...yet you wouldn't have to tug the belt through the loops with pliers. That is one of the advantages of kydex loops...consistency and/or adjustability

 

[hartcreek]

I just picked up a new holster yesterday......It is a belt or Inside the pants holster. All it is is a tapered V but it is strong enough that I can carry my Walker in it inside my pants.

 

[TRX]

Weather permitting, my preferred setup is a shoulder rig. It doesn't drag my pants down, doesn't have to be removed at the toilet, doesn't get snagged in seat belts, doesn't dig into my abdomen, doesn't get snagged on chair arms.

 

[Chocolate Bayou]

I carry my Colt Defender in D.M. Bullard Texas Conceal Rig super comfortable @ 3:00.Easy to put on or take out and easy to draw gun from.

http://store.dmbullardleather.com/catalog/category/5060232

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Some thoughts:

IWB vs. OWB
Generally OWB holsters will be more comfortable, although some IWB holsters are extremely comfortable. IWB holsters will conceal better in most cases, although there are plenty of clothes that will conceal an OWB holster just fine. OWB holsters will be faster to access.

Appendix carry

Pro: Very concealable, quick draw with practice. Better access while seated than many hip carry styles.

Con: Having the muzzle pointed at your body is uncomfortable for many. Deep concealment holsters here are hard to draw from in this position with regular pants and a belt, although any clothing with elastic waistbands makes this substantially easier. Uncomfortable to sit with for some people.

Strong-side hip carry

Pro: Probably fastest and most natural draw. Good comfort. Good retention.

Con: May be hard to access while seated.

Small of the back carry

Pro: None, really.

Con: Awkward draw stroke that either sweeps the person drawing or other people around that person. Concealability is not bad until you reach up or bend over, at which point it disappears entirely. Risk of injury if you fall on your back. Tendency to make very distinguishable and unnatural noises (of two hard objects colliding) when sitting down on a hard seat. Very uncomfortable to sit down in, and extremely hard to draw while seated.

Crossdraw carry

Pro: Best draw stroke from the seated position. Very good retention (Note: Some people think crossdraw has terrible retention because a person in front of you can readily draw your gun. This is true, but you will see them going for it, whereas a person going to grab your gun from a strong-side holster from behind may approach unseen and have just as easy a time grabbing it.) Good concealability, avoids the butt of the gun printing when bending over, which can happen with strong-side carry.

Con: Slower draw stroke in most situations than strong-side hip carry (However, a very fast crossdraw draw stroke is to blade off from your target with the holster side closest to your target and your hands resting in front as though on your belt buckle).

Pocket carry

Pro: Comfortable and practical. If your situational awareness sets you off, you can have the gun in hand and yet still appear to be only a person with his hands in his pockets. Good for cold weather, as a snubnose revolver or small semiauto can be put in a coat pocket for ready access, and it can even be fired from the hip while still inside your coat.

Con: Very difficult to draw from a seated position. Very few people can carry guns bigger than a subcompact semiauto or snubnose revolver in their pockets. Limits your storage space, as there should not be anything else in the pocket with a pocket-carried gun. Slower draw than most belt carry methods.

Shoulder carry

Pro: Easy access while seated. Good concealment. Can allow you to carry a larger gun than is comfortable on your belt.

Con: Weight is on your shoulders instead of your hips. Draw stroke tends to be slower and sweep other people with the muzzle. Most conceal poorly under light-colored shirts. Forgetting to secure the retention snap means the gun will rapidly fall out of the holster.

Off-body carry [purse, shoulder bag, etc.]

Pro: You can carry just about anything easily.

Con: You have little retention of your gun, and most people do not actually take the bag with them literally everywhere, so you may become separated from the gun with relative ease.

Ankle carry

Pro: Great for backup, relatively easy to unobtrusively access during a ground fight, if you can successfully keep your opponent in your guard, by reaching over your opponent's back while bringing your leg up toward your hand. This is part of an effective defense against punches (clinch) while in the inferior position in the full guard. Decent access while seated, particularly in a car.

Con: Extremely difficult to access in most other situations. Limited to small guns. Without a retention strap, movement or groundfighting may dislodge the gun, leading to the extremely awkward skittering sound of your gun bouncing over the floor.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Holsters and Carry Methods: pros and cons

RetiredUSNChief,

I find just a few simple ways to pack.

Either a IWB or OWB open top holster behind the hip or a IWB in the appendix position.

No straps or gizmos to slow the draw down.

Any way you carry the gun you will have to practice quite a bit to be fast with it.

And that is another reason to shun exotic methods.

Deaf

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

A SAA in my gunfighter holster under a leather duster would be appealing, if a bit outside of my normal style of dress.

Be hot as Hades in the summer, though.

 

[heycods]

having the lack of a butt to hold my pants up, waist carry is out, drags my pants down even with the smith 36, so its shoulder rig for me with second button of shirt left unbuttoned

 

[Hometeached1]

A SAA in my gunfighter holster under a leather duster would be appealing, if a bit outside of my normal style of dress.

Be hot as Hades in the summer, though.

Hey at least you would look cool!

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

^^^^

Darn skippy!

 

[1SOW]

Chief, I'm mil. retired, skinny (approaching old) and live in a hot climate. Fast access, concealment and comfort are my order of priorities.
I prefer hammered metal/steel pistols.
I need the pistol in the car and seated at establishments like restaurants. I walk , ride a bicycle and fish.

Sig 239, IWB open top, 11:00, Cross-draw
A retired LEO recommended this holster. I tried it and found it fits all my priorities and also gives some position options for colder weather where concealment is easier.

Safariland lined plastic/kydex Model 18 :Sig 239, Rt Handed, IWB with two adjustable snap beltloops that "lock" into position with an allen wrench, Adjustable for cant around to 3:00 or so.


The holster stays in position and doesn't print much "with the right belt" with any slightly loose shirt. Fast access without having to make a show of clearing the shirt in the car with seat-belt on or seated in a restaurant. Weak-hand clear and complete draw without noticeable movements. Standing it's fast . Bonus: it reholsters just as easily and discretely.

I can forget it's there except when squatted down tieing my shoes.

 

[NewGuy1911]

Cross draw

Hi 1SOW,

Pictures please. Also, you're THR name?