hornady powder thru adjustment

[martinbr]

Boy!, I am having a heck of a time trying to get this powder thru measure adjusted on a upgrade kit that I purchased for my projector. It is the newer powder thru kit and I can't get a decent flare. I already have damaged about a dozen bullets so far and about all day trying to get this thing to work. I have followed the manual and there directions didn't work for me. Or maybe i am just doing something wrong here.

I adjusted the linkage to be horizontal with the powder meter. Then I put a case in the third station like the manual says and raise the arm. I then turn the powder measure until the meter almost touches the top of the slot on the powder measure body. The I lock it down and try to flare a case and it's not enough flare! argh!!! This is frustrating. Anyone have a easier way to do this?
thanks,
martinbr

 

[Master Blaster]

This thread may help you with some of your issues with your new case activated powder measure linkage.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=251422&highlight=hornady+LNL

Hornady through powder belling inserts dont work, the .45 caliber one just doesnt bell the case enough for a jacketed bullet to sit without falling off everytime when the shellplate indexes. It doesnt bell enough for a lead bullet period. I now use the belling die in station two, and the mesure in station three.

 

[Waldog]

I have powder thru inserts for 9mm, 357, 40 and 45. and they all work perfectly. It's just that they are kind of hard to adjust.

Part of the problem is the crummy instructions that come with the press. You have to adjust the linkage to achieve FULL throw so that the measure "tops" out slightly "over center", in order to get the mouth of the case to bell. You have to adjust the linkage clamp on the powder die so that the powder measure will go deeper into the die. Then you have to adust the whole powder die depth in the press to achieve the proper belling. You have to go between the two adjustments until you get the bell you are looking for.

I works, it really does!!

 

[martinbr]

hornady powder measure

I can see by doing a search for threads it's a long on going problem. I just don't think this is a very good setup. I am really dissapointed after shelling out about $70.00 for the upgrade kit and expanders that it doesn't work that well. You can get it to work, but it is a pain in doing so. I have to have the coupling almost to the top of the threads to get any kind of decent bell. This isn't how it's directed to do so in the manual. I was up all last night trying to get this thing to work and ended up tossing out around a dozen bullets and crushed cases. It shouldn't have to be this hard to setup. The manual sucks quite frankly.

When I use my Lee Auto Disk Powder system I have no problems what so ever. I called back to Hornaday and he asked me if I polished the expander. Hugh? I never had to do this with my Lee. I am going to play around with a little bit more and if I can't get it right it's going back in the box and I will sell it if I ever get rid of the press.
martinbr

 

[Luggernut]

Like others have said they do work- at least for .40 and .45 that I've done. It took some time and frustration to figure things out... I'm not really sure why since it's not all that complicated in retrospect.

 

[Silverbullit]

Yo Luggernut,

Dont you get a play using the .45ACP "CAPD" Expander in every empty brass (until the first brass is feed, then upon EVERY failed feed brass)

This causes my loads to vary grossly,
Example, I set my CAPD to portion 6,6 grains powder (Vectan BA9)
the empty slots until the first brass reaches the CAPD causes 7,2 grains of the above powder to be portioned,
then it will get the correct 6,6 grains portions,
UNTIL a brass fails to feed and thus portioning again 7,2 grains to the following brass,
again back to 6,6 grains until the next failed feed brass,
and so on...

No matter how I adjust the CAPD (tried in 1mm increments then adjusting the whole thing in the press) I get it to expand/bell the case, BUT if an empty slot follows it will cause the entire powder measure to "jump/bump" thus shaking and concentrating the powder causing it to disperse a much higher powder load to the single following brass.

How do I solve this?
Any help is greatly appreciated,

Kindly,

/Silverbullit

 

[Luggernut]

I saw your other post and honestly I still can't follow you on this. I do get consistent powder with .45ACP (and I've just starting to do Clays which folks say can be tricky). If there is no brass under the PTE- nothing will happen, it only works with brass which is the way it should. The only thing I can tell you is to use the pistol rotor (more accurate for pistol charges), make sure the rotor cycles all the way up AND all the way down for each case, and adjust the bell properly(case should go up into the PTE until the case mouth hits the shoulder on the PTE- this gives it the bell). To get the rotor to cycle up and down properly- you may need to move the linkage up/down of the powder drop... not to difficult once you play around with it.

Over all the set up works very well now that I've figured it out. This was my first progressive and I didn't run into glitches... but now I'm completely satisfied.

Also- someone mentioned the PTEs don't bell well... well I've found that not to be true... with proper adustment they bell quite a bit. I prefer the least amount of bell possible and I use plated bullets.


EDIT: I started reloading on this press for 9mm and ran into some issues but went on to .40 and .45ACP so I'm not 100% clear on how this works for 9mm with the PTEs.

 

[Silverbullit]

Yo Luggernut,

Yes, I use the pistol roto in both my Hornady Lock'n Load AP.

I don't know how else to explain the problem so you can follow me, let me try with pictures and maybe youll catch on I hope. *sry my english sux so bad*

Okey, first Imagine you have set your press to load .45ACP cases with Vectan BA9 powder to be dispensed at 6,6 Grains.






Everything is working properly and you have a full shellplate with brass,






and it is working properly dispensing powder loads of 6,6 Grains,





Now you get a failure to feed case or a case is damaged and needs to be removed, thus leaving a space in your shellplate, see hole...






You will now get contact in the empty area between the Powder Through Expanders/Case Activated Powder Drop assembly against your Shellplate, see picture






Causing your Powder Measure to "jump"/"bump"/"hickup", see image






The first case to follow will receive an abnormal powder load, due to the before bump. This is a real example showing the load to vary from 6,6 to 7,4 Grains
(I am sorry, before I said 7,2 - the correct value was 7,4 Grains so I correct it here.)


I hope this explains the event I try to describe.

All due to the fact that no matter how you adjust your Powder Through Expanders, and I mean that I have tried in 1mm increments all the way from the top of the Powder Measure Threads to the bottom of the powder measure threads in order to find the magic spot. And from the middle and down to the bottom you can make it bell/expand your cases but not stop it from jumping/bumping/hickuping. (Above the Pistol Roto will stop half erected and failing to work.) If it is unclear what I mean with the threads on the powder measure I can post more pics of the threads also.

How did you solve this Luggernut?

I need my LNL AP to work flawless as I practice and compete in PPC reloading and firing somewhere in the neighbourhood of 100.000 rounds a year. (Cant afford more than that, or I'd shoot it.) I have two LNL AP:s so I dont get stranded in crepe, and one is mainly for 38special and the other 45acp. (Will get a third as soon as I get this crappy problem out of the way, and if I cannot solve it I will check if another brand (Dillon?) works properly and sell these two and get three Dillons instead.
However I feel much more comfortable with Hornadys AP, they agree much more with my personal preferences and feel more comfortable to work with, so the best thing would be if I could solve the obstacles that hinders me from reloading safe and reliably.

Any suggestions here Luggernut would be gold!

Kindly,

/Silverbullit

 

[Luggernut]

Ok Silver, I understand clearly now. My press operates the same exact way. With no case is the shellholder, the PTE does indeed moves the rotor a bit... almost looks exactly like the motion mine has. However- this movement doesn't move the rotor (or more importantly the hole that the powder sit in) enough to be a problem. I don't recall if I've measured the load after an empty like you showed but I haven't noticed anything strange with the powder cop either. I just finished a large batch of .45ACP but I'll check it when I can. I use Clays and Winchester 231 and haven't observed anything like you've seen... but I'll check when I can.

 

[Silverbullit]

Oh I almost forgot mate,

Reading youre on "Clays" now, I cant hold back.

I have worked my way through many jars of gunpowder and I have a small tip in all humblenes that might put a smile on you.
Have you tried Vihtavouri powder? It is far superior in smoke and crap in the tools (our spoorting equipment, handfirearms?)
N320 and N310 in particular, depending on what you load (38s or 45s)

And far superior above Vihtavouri in both those aspects is Vectan.
Particularly BA10 and BA9 (other Vectan powders can be tricky, for gods sake stay far away from their "leaf" powders)
I apologize for my sucking english but I beleive your bright enough to "dechifer" my weird attempts on speaking english.
Vectan has one badace downside thou, their charts are bad beyond comprehension, and further you need to test every new batch you purchase in your chronograph. (The manufacturer, Nobel, allows a deviation of 25% from the factorys reference batch. So first year you can be 25% under, and the next 25% over. You get the drift here. Some fellars from the Umeå shooting club talked to the factory and claimed to had this information from the manufacturers in persons.)
I must admit I dont know what other manufacturers allow in terms of deviation, I only know that if you shoot good and dont necessarily turn on from gun cleaning Vectan is the sh*t.
(I just hope my swedish translates to english so it does not sound blunt, expressions and sayings... and you understand my point. I dont mean to use swearwords, so I hope you have the same expressions we have)

Anyway, I highly recommend you try it. I do 2000 rounds large caliber practicing/week, about 100.000 rounds a year and I did 90% with Vectan. I shoot tighter, and I clean my revolvers/pistols about five times less than I do with Hogdon, Accurate, Norma and all those others, Vihtavouri is somewhere in between depending on the type.

Okey, that got long =)

Just try them, and youre free to cuzz me if you not have a revelation mate!

/Silverbullit

 

[SDefender]

Hornady makes some fine hardware but their instructions are terrible. I had the same issue initially with the expander not expanding. I got to looking at it and realized there is no way it could expand a case without the metering device stopping on the upstroke so it could apply pressure on the case mouth for expansion.

I have the LNL AP and will provide what I did and you can modify for your circumstances:

1) Go ahead and setup the powder assy by the supplied instructions. With that cross link horizontal, etc. Also screw it into the press a couple turns as they also specify.

2) Then finish up with the Hornady instructions by screwing the whole powder assy. down into the press, with a shell in the shellplate and watch the rotor/handle move upward as you screw the whole assy. down. By the instructions you have it adjusted correctly when the metering device is almost to the top of the slot the rotor is riding in. Now diverge from the Hornady instructions.

3) At this point you will be adjusting this as you would a regular belling die. Screw the powder assy. down 1/2 turn at a time and test the fit of a bullet in the case. I had to screw mine down at several more turns to get a bell. The Hornady instructions also state you can't adjust the belling and indicate they designed it this way so we can't screw it up. This is also wrong. At least on mine it works just like the regular expander die and I can increase or decrease the bell as one would normally expect.

Since this is full of various adjustments, I have a second powder measure on order for my other caliber. I just want to be able to pull one complete powder assy. and replace with the other when I change calibers.

Also, my rotor assembly was not moving as smoothly as I wanted so I took the rotor out, cleaned everything again with brake cleaner and alcohol. Then sprayed a liberal does of HOS on the mating surfaces of the rotor and housing and let them dry a few minutes before reassembling. It now operates very smoothly. By the time the HOS wears off the rotor should be broken in and I do not expect to lube it again. HOS does not negatively impact powder, according to the directions on the can.

 

[Master Blaster]

The hornady measure needs a baffle to get consistant metering at varring powder levels. The jiggling effect mentioned happens with any volumetric powder measure to some degree.

 

[Canuck-IL]

Silverbullit...
It's a US vs Eurpoe thing ... you get a broad choice of Vihta powders while it can be very hard to find here, especially in certain areas of the country. Further, if you do find it, the price is usually enough to make one reconsider just how much work IS IT to clean a gun after you use it. Nice powders, outrageous prices!

The Vectan line was discontinued in North America about 2 years or a bit more ago. I think I got the last 10 pounds of Ba-10 that Graf's had. It's too bad ... nice powder, very reasonable prices and very clean ... as a bonus, it even meters well.

So, you're lucky on powders in Europe - this side of the pond, I believe we have a more reasonable selection of decently priced items with which to shoot the powder !!

Love my L'n'L ... wouldn't use the new powder thru if it were free though.

/Bryan

 

[Silverbullit]

Hi SFDefender & Mates! =)

Thanx for your input mates!!!

Yep SFDefender, I am aware I can adjust the width of the belling on the cases.
I have an incredible amount of time on this press , the Hornady LNL AP.

But the bell is not the problem, it is the variation on the powder dose you get after a missed case.

If youd like I can give a few tips back,
as it seems you get the most slack (thus the smallest motion of the roto, wich causes the powder to densify as it bumps over a empty case-slot)
when you adjust the powder assembly (the very die) as low as humanly possible.

You can cheat here, but it comes at a dangerous gamble that could destroy something on your press.
SO YOU DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK
and it is important to view and understand how the powder assembly works to do it this way,
nouf warnings -
The trick is to put a "lockring" on the threads on the powder measure beneath the part of the assembly that you tighten to the threads.

WHY IS THIS DANGEROUS=
- well if you wrongfully start with the assembly to low OR you put it to deep it will have no chance on "sliding" up over the threads as the manufacturers at Hornady (Greg) with all probability intended it to do as a safety precaution.

Lock the die bushing in the press, remove the spring from your measure, (No powder needless to say - AND if that was not obvious then DONT try this)
pull down the handle on the press to raise the shellplate to its top position and leave it there.

Lift the roto manually to its top position,
make sure to have a case / piece of brass - preferably a case that has been pre-belled to your personal preferences. (As little as possible while the bullit still drops a couple of millis down the top)
(This is why you lift the roto, so it will clear the primertube and any crap in the way)

The "lockring" should be as low as possible on the threads of your powder measure.
The assembly should be completely loose on the threads.

Pull the handle and lift the shellplate to the top, BY HAND FORCE tighten the die until it makes contact with your shellplate.
Back it up again - the least amount you render safe.
Fasten the lockring on the die.

Now screw the entire assembly is loose and down making firm contact with the belling of that ultimate case.

Screw the added lockring up under the assembly on the powder measure threads (You still holding the roto fully erected)
fasten both lockring and assembly.

Done correctly you will now have a small slack where your "expander" will move a millimeter or two up and down,
NOTICE _ IT WILL STILL BE TO LITTLE - BUT IT WILL AT LEAST MINIMIZE THE MOTION OF THE ROTO WHEN IT HITS AN EMPTY SLOT ! ! !

IF you dont get the bell, then back the die up one entire screwturn, then do the procedure again,
after you have a turn of slack, USE it to tighten down the bell.
(BUT BE CAREFUL SO YOU DONT HIT THE SHELLPLATE ! ! ! YOU WILL DAMAGE SOMETHING THAT WONT MAKE YOU HAPPY)

My english sux and I as usual have a migrain - but I do hope you understand how I mean despite my poor description, but if you took the time to watch your assembly and understand your powder measure you probably do.

Oh and yeah,
if you have this slack (the optimal you can get) I think it would be possible,
and Im playing with the thought to do this,
to cut off about half the expander - I DONT meant the entire expander adapter, but the part of it that does the expanding,
Im just guessing - but say it is 6-7 millimeters, then I'd cut off half.

Then I'd polish off as much as I can from the Die so it still have the lockring inside preventing the expander adapter to drop out, maybe I could get about a millimeter or two here also.

This would fix the problem for .45ACP at least.

It will still be ****ty for 9mm Luger and such tho...


Hmm, I have not got an answer from Greg yet, but I am waiting.

I am really stupid who bought FIVE complete adapters AND another one with the powder through expanders assembly add-on. *lol*

Im getting so tired of this crap that I am seriously considering selling my two hornady LNL AP:s and NOT getting the third,
if this cannot get solved Ill get three 650 one at a time, or even better three 1050:s if money starts raining from heaven =)

Thanx mates, hope this was of some help to you!

/Silverbullit

 

[Silverbullit]

Oh yeah masterblaster, the expander hits the shellplate.
This bump causes the powder measure to take a fat jump and the powder densifies from 6,6 grains to 7,4 grains of Vectan BA9.
And that is downright dangerous.

IT DID NOT HAPPEN BEFORE, with the ordinary case activated powder measure.

It just happens with powder through expanders.



Canuck_Il,

Yeah I dont wanna use it either,
but it is impossible for me to have the powder cop or any other powder controller in the press without the "powder through expanders" as I have one station to little without it.
Station 1: Size and depriming die
Station 2: Powder and Expand
Station 3: Powder Cop
Station 4: Bullet seater
Station 5: Taper crimp

As you can see, I have no option,

And oh yeah, it will probably be more clear if I add that I compete and practice in PPC.
I shoot about 2000 rounds each week in large calibers. (I also practice .22LR religiously)
And last year I shot a little more than 100.000 rounds - and I loaded every round.
I would go nuts if I had to stop and look down each and every case to make sure the powder level was not to low nor to high and definitely present.


Well you understand mates...
Just wish the LNL AP would work as it is supposed to.

Stay loaded mates,

/Silverbullit

 

[Luggernut]

Silverbullit- I've tested this several times with my recent batch of Clays. When I skip a case I notice no changes in the powder dropped after. I'm wondering if it's unique to the powder you're using.

 

[PsychoKnight]

Use a powder baffle

It was mentioned already, but not responded to.

You really need to install a powder baffle if you expect consistency in your drops. A missed case or first round load shouldn't deviate regardless.

You can make a baffle out of most anything. I took a cap off a cylindrical container for toothpicks, took the sharp end of the hornady drain attachment and twisted a 3/4" hole in the center. I shove it down near the bottom of the reservoir. You can also purchase RCBS powder baffles and bend it smaller to fit.

 

[Roccobro]

You can make a baffle out of most anything. I took a cap off a cylindrical container for toothpicks, took the sharp end of the hornady drain attachment and twisted a 3/4" hole in the center. I shove it down near the bottom of the reservoir. You can also purchase RCBS powder baffles and bend it smaller to fit.

Do you think you could please post a picture? If not post it, can you send it to me. This sounds interesting.

Justin

 

[Silverbullit]

Hi mates,

Thanx for the powder "baffles" tip.

Luggernut mate,
Well I sure wish it was isolated to one powder, but I get the same variations with Vectan BA10, Vectan BA9, Vihtavouri N320, Vihtavouri N340, Vihtavouri N310, Bullseye and one of Normas gunpowders (Cant remember the type of Norma and I dont have the can left, at least I dont think I have. But I can check for it tomorrow if it is important.)

It is indeed the expander that sticks out to much and causes this deviation,
and it feels even worse with my preferred powder, Vectan BA10, as it sure is a fastburning gunpowder.
The best .38 special load I have ever encountered is that of Magma Engineerings 130 grains .38 special roundnose calibered to .358 on a load of 3,0 grains Vectan BA10.
I have even spread this load data to all other clubs to see if anyone can find a load that shoots tighter in a smith 686, but so far nobody has got it tighter in the benchrest.
And as you understand it has extremely small marginals being such a fast gunpowder, and it is a catastroph of dangerous proportions if it deviates more than 0,2 grains... (Preferably NONE deviation at all if you wanna stand a chance at the SM Cupmatches.)


I am still waiting an answer from Hornady on this, I do hope they have the solution for us all...

As I am running low on ammo now, I emailed Dillon and asked about some prices. Hmm *sigh* not fun to throw out a fat stack of cash as I already have two progressive presses (and one single stage) but I need reliable ammo, yesterday!

(I did 1472 with my 6" S&W 686 previous Sunday, this weekend, Saturday I took the gold in the prestigious revolver competition in Umeå. So I'm kinda in the mood for some heavy practice, and left with the ful dry-fire alternative dont make my day.)


PsychoKnight & Roccobro,
I look forward to those pics =)

Stay loaded mates,

/Silverbullit

 

[Luggernut]

I hope Hornady can come thru for you, that's a strange one.

 

[20nickels]

I tried the expander thru thing tonite for the 1st time in .38. I just followed the directions and threaded the measure down until it belled. I've been folowing this thread and expected it to be more painfull.

 

[Roccobro]

Mine will be here Wednesday. Gotta get the press mounted before I can enjoy my own problems with it.

Justin

 

[PsychoKnight]

November 14th, 2007, 05:31 PM #18
Roccobro
Senior Member



Join Date: 04-06-06
Location: San Berdoo, CA
Posts: 437 Quote:
You can make a baffle out of most anything. I took a cap off a cylindrical container for toothpicks, took the sharp end of the hornady drain attachment and twisted a 3/4" hole in the center. I shove it down near the bottom of the reservoir. You can also purchase RCBS powder baffles and bend it smaller to fit.

Do you think you could please post a picture? If not post it, can you send it to me. This sounds interesting.

Justin

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=493217&t=11082005

If the link doesn't work due to changes at their website, go to www.midwayusa.com, search "rcbs baffle" You can bend the baffle inward or outward to fit the hopper.