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How do you talk to anti- people?

Discussion in 'Activism' started by thesolidus, Apr 17, 2009.

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  1. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    How to talk to an anti about being pro or anti?

    Well, best way seems to be like a fart in church, ignore it, and change the subject.

    Antis, by and large, believe in imaginary things. In this they are usually unshakable. You are faced with the logical dilemma of proving a negative to these people. Might as well try to disprove UFOs, ailen abductions, copr circles, the tri-lateral commission, or any of dozens of beliefs held with religious conviction.

    Anti's believe things like anything shaped like an AR-15 or AK or the like is a machine gun, no matter what. they've seen it on tv--they are all "machine guns' to them. They believe that the NRA wants, and allows, people to hunt bunnies and baby deer with M-60s. They do not think any gun laws presently exist. They believe things like criminals obey laws (since they are just like us, except for how they are forced to commit crimes and all).

    They believe these things like they believe the sun rises in the East. Further, most have not been taught that the Sunrise defines east; as far as they are concerened, east is just something we've all just agreed upon.

    So, if you try to educate, even socratically, all they tend to hear is that you are spouting nonsense. The Sun doesn't rise in the West! How can there be 20,000 gun laws? People would obey those, wouldn't they? They have to! They are Laws! Everybody is Just Like Me, and I Obey Laws! (Do not point out that they all know at least one speeder or recreational chemical user--they don't "get" irony either.)

    They simply have no framework to consider crime victimization versus population, that there are people who are lawless and will disobey laws at will.

    All that really happens is that the anti has to go twitter anout the psychopath they met; some sort of throwback creature, O it was horrible. And they seemed so normal, not like the hunched-over knuckle-dragging nra types we all can normally spot . . .
     
  2. def

    def Member

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    note: ***this post is not aimed at anyone in specific***

    quite frankly, there's idiots on both sides, as far as i'm concerned. further, i believe both sides are equally stupid when at their most irrational. without getting into details, i'm quite pro-gun rights and pro-gun control, to certain degrees on various, specific issues. anyone, and i mean anyone, who either a) subscribes to 100% of what the stereotypical right or left side of the politics on the issue (or any issues, for that matter) and/or b) completely dismisses the other side of the argument as being of "libtards" or "Rush Limbaugh-parroting morons," then you obviously aren't smart enough to form your own thoughts and views; instead just picking a team and blindly following it like gospel, even if you can't see that you're doing that.
     
  3. jordan1948

    jordan1948 Member

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    I don't. Unless it's someone at work in which case I don't talk about guns. But I rarely talk about guns to anyone that I don't associate with after work. I don't even think anyone at my church knows I have any either. I'm not trying to hide the fact that I'm a firearms enthusiast but I find myself in a lot less arguments when I don't talk about them.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2009
  4. Foofles

    Foofles Member

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    It depends.. if the other person is using rational arguments then maybe I'd get into a civil debate using my own interpretations and conclusions from history and statistics. Though mainly in a "food for thought" kind of way, and pointing out the general flaws in most gun control arguments...

    Like "the USA has so much more gun crime per capita than X Y Z!" ... well, the USA is also much larger in land area and has much more diversity in population densities... the most crime occurs in the areas with the highest population density (and usually the lowest proportion of legal gun ownership), and this skews the statistics for the whole country. Etc.

    If the person is just a raving emotional house I'll just try to avoid the issue. I'm not out to be a missionary or something, if someone wants to believe something that's their business and I don't want to waste my time or blood pressure on it.
     
  5. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    There are no anti's in my circle. IF one appears THE Cranky old curmudgeon answer Is "WHEN YOU PAY MY BILLS YOU CAN HAVE A SAY!! "

    Or Your not from around here are you?
     
  6. cbrgator

    cbrgator Member

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    Almost my entire youtube channel is dedicated to the subject. If you want some good info, cycle through some of the videos.
     
  7. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    Like General Patton to a shell shocked soldier.
     
  8. AgentAdam

    AgentAdam Member

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    No Talk. Take them shooting. Actions speak louder than words. If they don't like shooting a .22 there helpless. Most people can't get enough and want to move up to a .32,then .38, then 9mm, then, then, then it never ends.
     
  9. Dravur

    Dravur Member

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    I use small words and a soothing voice as you never know when they will snap.
     
  10. AllAmerican

    AllAmerican Member

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    I make fun of them to their face.
     
  11. Portedglock26

    Portedglock26 Member

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    I have taken my friend shooting he liked it but theres still no hope. When the nazi zombies come dont call me!
     
  12. dkk73

    dkk73 Member

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    Some very interesting posts here.

    I talk to "anti-gun rights" people selectively, and usually after I've known them at least a bit, they express openness, or toss out an argument that might be productive to have. Or clearly want some sport and we're both in the mood.

    My one piece of advice would be this: If you are convinced you have the only right answer about something and cannot talk with becoming irrational or needlessly elevating your blood pressure... then consider not talking.

    Unless you just want to antagonize people. Which you might want to do for whatever reason (some of the posters here clearly just like feeling superior to other people, whom they call names...).

    Certainly your right, but, consider this:
    Many of us feel that gun rights are actually practically important, and worth advocating by means other than long-range shots with your superior skills.

    It may make a lot of people feel better to say "molon labe", "screw the idiots", whatever, but it doesn't improve our practical political position.

    I agree that the most actual mileage comes out of talking to people who are not rabidly against gun rights to start. But being prejudiced alone does not, in my experience, make them a rabid anti- by default. A lot of these people just accept received wisdom. Like so many of us do in other areas, without realizing it.

    People are sometimes surprised that I am a strong believer in gun rights, because of their presumptions about all kinds of things. I think I help open the door a bit to gaining their support by seeming reasonable and actually having open discussions. I don't feel I need to "win" every argument.

    I am one of the pragmatists who does not believe that we can secure the 2A by extremism... The "freedom loving" American citizenry, many of who are part of The Right, have been giving up the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments for so long, that I think it is ludicrous to think that gun grabbing can be defeated without efforts at argument and systematic lobbying.

    It's definitely local. I'm biased because I live in WA state, which is a place with great gun laws and relatively little urban disorder threat in most areas (well, maybe my old neighborhood!). Quite different from MT and Los Angeles, CA...

    I'm not trying to bash people for being disgusted with some anti's... I have the same reaction. It's just a question of what actually helps our cause.

    Cheers,
    DK
     
  13. 06

    06 Member

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    True story: Met a "bostonian yankee" about 4-5 yrs ago who was an anti. He made the comment once that if he were pastor of a church and I came carrying he would ask me to leave. My reply was: I would not be there to start with. Well, it has taken me four yrs and now he is into preps, has an '06, wife and he have their CCPs, wee bit of ammo, 3/4 ton 4X4, garden, and starting on a greenhouse. He has plans in place for stopping vehicles from getting to his home and even talks about fortifications. Quite a change from my former tree hugging buddy. He is even a working Republican now-wow. How did the change take place--just drops of info along the way, getting to know each other, giving examples and pointing out errors/threats to himself and his family. He even has a "Gator" and extra fuel/oil/parts. We talk about accuracy at distances and self defense up close for him and wife.
    I remember him saying that he thought I had a bit of Tyranasaurs Rex in my gene pool in a meeting and now he has "caught the bug" and is a bit "scaley" also. LOL, and he was going to "convert" me. This fall he is going to learn a bit about unit tactics and E/E/S. I may have "created a monster", but it will be a nice monster-lol, wc
     
  14. Guitar Bob

    Guitar Bob Member

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    Canada

    Reading this forum I saw some remarks about Canadians.
    Here is my take on it.

    I went up to Vancouver bout two year ago.
    Why them folk up thar sho do look like us, talk like us, en ack like us, but they shore don't thank like us down here in Alabamy. Why they is sceered o guns and such. Shore nuff foreigners alright! En everbody in town drives about in some kinda Nazi car. I only seen three pick up trucks and they wus Jap trucks. Not a Chevy or Ford in sight. Some cab driver with a rag tied on his head and a big moustashe tole me he jus loved the national helth care.
    Well I couldn't wait to git back to Alabamy en go a huntin and a fishin. Sides all o them folks seem to be :)Queer and Lizy.
    ThanK l I'll go en git me a co-coaler en a moon pie now.
    Bye Y'all!
     
  15. NotSoFast

    NotSoFast Member

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    With the rational, discussion is possible. But with rabid irrational anti-gunners, nothing you say will get their attention.

    The only one I've heard that could talk to them and get their attention is this Texas lady.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
     
  16. expvideo

    expvideo Member

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    Say what you mean and don't sugar-coat anything. We try to tiptoe around people's emotional reactions to certain words and it doesn't get us anywhere. They want to be up-front and vocal about their beliefs. Be up front and vocal about yours. One of my best arguements with an anti was when a friend of mine said "I support gun rights, but I don't see why anyone needs to own an AK47". I explained why I own one. I explained why the 2nd amendment was in place and that there could come a time when *inappropriate for THR* come to my door and tell me to let them in to search for jews (great reference, huh). I own an AK in case I ever have to use it against my *not appropriate for THR*. To my surprise, she thought it was a very rational reason and changed her mind about the whole subject. Had I beat around the bush and tried not to say anything offensive, we probably would have had to agree to disagree.
     
  17. Sheezy

    Sheezy Member

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  18. BornAgainBullseye

    BornAgainBullseye Member

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    i say to them... Regardless of what kind of biased opinion you have. The fact is that automobile accidents kill far far far more people than any type of firearm. So if all you want is to save lives. Why don't you want to ban sports cars and 18 wheelers??? Oh and put restrictions on motorcycles and SUV's while you are at it. When they try to respond I usually very rudely interrupt them and end it with whatever insult I see fit
     
  19. Steven Youngblood

    Steven Youngblood Member

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    With a big ole stick!
    You beat them about the head and shoulders, until they figure out they need a gun for self defence.
     
  20. MDW GUNS

    MDW GUNS Member

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    In these days in CA that is a loosing task, specially as closer you get towards the Bay Area.
    You can only try with the moderate ones, the fanatics will never listen, until they get robed/raped or almost beaten to death.
    Then they want a .44 Mag or better .500 S&W!
     
  21. aliasneo07

    aliasneo07 Member

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    Well, my political viewpoints differ from most of yours I'm sure. I'm a democrat, and I GUESS a liberal. But I'm a strong supporter of the second amendment. And if I may say so, all the conservatives and pro 2A need to search for people like me.We can't win with republicans alone, we need as many dems as we can possibly get.

    I don't hunt, I just love target shooting and the right of self defense.

    As far as the original topic I've found most anti gunners can be reasoned with if you're respectful and logical.Some can't.
     
  22. 10/22plinker

    10/22plinker Member

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    On the topic of names I've been called for stating things that are true. During a debate I brought up that most 110lb. women can't take down a 210lb. man with just her fists unless she knows some martial arts I've never heard about. Immediatly afterwords I appoligized to anyone I may have offended and within seconds of saying this they all blurted out that I was a stereotypical sexist.
     
  23. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    You forgot to say, "Here's a clue for you: 'Xena, Warrior Princess' was NOT documentary."
     
  24. thesolidus

    thesolidus Member

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    I stayed in a hostel in Santa Fe recently, (good place to meet some very liberal people.)
    Initially I didn't talk about guns or hunting or anything, but as conversations drifted to country living I dropped terms like "self-reliance" and got supeisinf reactions. People started talking about guns! Hippies liking guns you say!? Yup.
    I had asked why some folks, namely then that don't trust the government and conspiricy theorize about George W and the Freemasons and grey aliens running the country etc are not more "self reliant" and still ask for the help/ interference from the same governemnt they distrust. (always seemed odd, people convinced I'm part of a medical conspiracy asking for an x-ray)
    Anyway, everyone looked at me like I was the anti-RKBA person.

    So what do you know... Suprised me anyhow, bunch of hippies (said with love and respect) sitting around the communal kitchen table talking about shooting...
     
  25. evan price

    evan price Member

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    I had a conversation recently with an old fella I know. I was carrying openly that day. He made the comment to me that they shouldn't let people carry guns nowadays. That was for a long time ago when things weren't civilized. Nobody needs a handgun nowadays. Back then, people could die if they didn't have a gun, but today, there's better options available, like calling the police.

    While leaning on his pasture fence I commented that he had some nice horses. I went on to say that people nowadays don't need horses, that was for a long time ago when people weren't civilized. Nobody needs a horse nowadays. Back a long time ago, people could die without a horse, but now there's better options available, like calling a taxi...

    He then said horses were for riding, guns were for killing. I told him all my guns must be defective then, because they've never killed anybody. And is there a Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing the right to keep and ride horses?

    He's a nice older fella, and we get along fine.
     
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