How hot can 38-40 go in a Vaquero?

[MatthewVanitas]

Greetings:
The Ruger "Buckeye" Vaquero (with the interchangeable 38-40 and .40 S&W cylinders) looks to be an interesting beast. It seems that the original 38-40 loadings aren't too terribly impressive, but what can be done with that cartridge in the much sturdier Vaquero frame? Thanks for your time. -MV

 

[Jim March]

The 38-40 can be set up to more or less duplicate 40S&W power levels, but there's a big problem if you push past that:

It's a bottleneck cartridge.

You can't run a high-pressure bottleneck cartridge in a revolver. You'll never see a wheelgun in 357Sig, fr'instance.

See, when you fire a bottleneck cartridge in a wheelgun, the case is thrown back against the blast plate area (vertical metal wall where the firing pin is). If the pressure is high enough, the brass deforms at the shoulder (where the shell shrinks down) in such a way that the brass keeps getting pressed against the blast shield. After the first few shots, the resulting drag as the rear of the fired shells scrape along does really sucky things to the DA trigger pull and/or SA cocking.

The 38-40 works OK because the shoulder isn't too extreme AND the pressures are low enough to keep the brass from significantly deforming. Hot-rod it, and...whoops. You'll run into this issue LONG before you run any risk of hurting the gun.

Now, there IS a way to hot-rod the hell out of that gun for cheap. Any gunsmith can take the 40S&W cylinder and bore it deeper for 10mm or even 10mm Magnum .

 

[Tamara]

Like Jim said...

...do what I did; buy one and punch the .40 cylinder out to take 10mm Auto.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

I had thought about the reboring (the original thread title was going to be "Can the 38-40 be rechambered to anything useful), but the problem with that is I lose the ability to use the inexpensive .40 S&W rounds. If I could find a 10mm/.40 combo, I could rechamber the 10mm, but I don't know if they've offered that combo. I checked Numrich, but they don't carry Vaquero cylinders as standard inventory (or 10mm cylinders period), plus I believe they need to be professionally fitted to the individual frame.

I could have an aftermarket cylinder made, but that wouldn't be cost effective...

This is all part of my backup plan in case I can't get a hold of a good deal on a 610 that I was offered. I'm drawn to the .41 Mag, but .40 S&W is a whole lot easier to find than .41 Special, so 10mm AutoMag and .40 makes an easier combo.

 

[Tommy Gunn]

The .38-40 is a blackpowder cartridge. So get some cast bullets, Goex FFFG and SPG lube to make up some loads.

 

[Tamara]

Ruger would happily fit you up a replacement .40 cylinder...

(Ruger doesn't sell cylinder blanks, but they will fit replacement cylinders. Then you can just punch the replacement cylinder to .40 or 10mm, depending on what you've done with the original wheel, and be good to go. )

 

[Jim March]

LOL! Sure, just tell Ruger your cat got ahold of the 40 cylinder and was batting it around the house and stashed it away where you can't find it .

If you can find a 357 cylinder that fits as far as endshake and timing goes (WITHOUT firing it!), a gunsmith can ream it up to 40, 10mm, 10mmMag or whatever. It's all the same metallurgy.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Sure, just tell Ruger your cat got ahold of the 40 cylinder and was batting it around the house and stashed it away where you can't find it.

Actually, you were cleaning your gun in a row boat, and your buddy happened to catch the mother of all bass, and the next thing you knew, your cylinder was at the bottom of lake whatever it was.

 

[Tamara]

...or you could just offer to pay Ruger for the replacement cylinder.

Then you'd have .38-40, .40 and 10mm cylinders...

 

[Hal]

How hot can 38-40 go in a Vaquero?

Plain Jane handloads for the venerable old BP round duplicate the .40S&W @ 60% less chamber pressure.

Besting the 10mm and nudging the bottom of the .41mag with "juiced" rounds should be possible,,,in a Vaquero using new modern brass.

Shoulder angle of the bottleneck is in the same neighborhood of others,,,all of which run @ higher chamber pressures,, so setback wouldn't be a factor.

Not worth the time or effort though IMHO,,,unless you're a dedicated handloader @ an advanced level. Anything you can work up is still going to be well under the potential of the .41mag.

 

[Mannlicher]

Jim thinks:"You can't run a high-pressure bottleneck cartridge in a revolver. You'll never see a wheelgun in 357Sig, fr'instance."

Incorrect Jim: I have been shooting my Smith Model28 in .357 Bain&Davis for over 25 years. This cartridge blows away the .357 Sig, being a .44mag necked to .357. Try a 125 grain JHP at 2000fps.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

One thing to remember if hot-rodding the .38-40 is that the brass is THIN. Just be aware that case life will be short.

 

[BluesBear]

Well I guess you could run a .454 Casull case through a .44-40 sizing die, then again through a .38-40 sizing die andthen trim it to correct length......

But I think the money and time would be better utilized getting a 10mm cylinder.

.38-40 is fun though. With light loads in good brass, the empties fall out of the cylinder.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Why not just trade for a Vaquero chambered in 45 LC? You'll probably be out less than it would cost to buy a cylinder or have yours bored.

There is reloading data as well as commercially available "Ruger & Freedom Arms Only" 45LC loads than push well into .44 mag power territory (and sometimes past) while still being pressure-safe.

Brad