How reliable are electronic scales?

[Balrog]

You weren't operating the press at the same time you were weighing a load, were you?

No, I was operating the press, then weighing the load, then operating the press. I don't know how or why, but putting my scale on a different table away from the press has sure helped.

 

[MCMXI]

There are two common ways to weigh powder with confidence. The old way was to have a beam scale and know it would read correctly. Today, some still work the old way while others get an expensive digital scale AND a beam scale to keep the digital honest. (This is modern "progress"?)

I have absolutely no use for or need of a beam scale. I gave mine away a long time ago. I have two RCBS CM1500s and an RCBS Pro 750 (10 years old) along with the Lyman check weights shown in an earlier post. I dispense powder either with the CM (rifle cartridges) or a Redding 10X (for pistol cartridges). That's all I need thank you very much.

 

[jr_roosa]

so I would say that I am +/- 0.1g

You're in the money. That's the best I can do with 748.

If you really want to keep it on the bench, maybe get a good thick chunk of granite counter top scrap cut a little bigger than your scale, put some soft rubber feet on it, and use it as a scale stand. It will buffer the vibrations a little bit.

-J.

 

[Mal H]

One other thing to consider, Balrog, is that the location is detrimental to weighing and has nothing to do with the press. To test that, all you have to do is move the scale back to exactly where it was, be sure everything else is as it was, and make another series of weighings without operating the press at all.

Things that can affect a scale are drafts (even seemingly undetectable ones), electrical noise (fluorescent lights, etc.), vibration from A/C motors, etc.

 

[Balrog]

You might be right, maybe it was a bad location for whatever reason. It was not too far from a flourescent light, and I have heard that flourescent lights can cause interference. In any case, the problem seems solved by moving the scale, so I am probably going to quit worrying with it and get back to loading.

 

[BigBob3006]

Balrog,

I tried the RCBS and Dillon and had the same trouble with both of them. Then I found out that fluorescent lights can affect the electronic scales. Then a good friend put me on the Lyman 1200 scale. Russ said the secret was to turn it on 30 minutes before I intended to use it. That seemed to be the answer. After 30 min. the scale seemed to settle in. Call me chicken if you want, I use it for weighing bullets and cases. When I want to weigh powder I go back to my cross beam Ohaus 505 scale. Maybe this will help the scale you're using.

 

[loadedround]

Time for me to stick my two cents into this discussion. As a retired chemist with over 38 years experience in a a lab, I have to state that the electronic digital balance has replaced the single or two pan balance(scale) in all phases of lab work, be it analytical, research, hospital, or university and has done so for over 20 years or longer. Those old two pan balances were extremly accurate, but too damned slow and took a bit of skill to use one accurately. Today you could train an 8 year old child to weigh more accurately than someone using an old pan balance. Of course I am referring to a quality digital balance and not a 9.98 Weebay special that won't stablize or calibrate! Those sold by RCBS, Lyman, and Dillon are good balances, and most of the made in USA ones are manufactured by Ohaus Balance Co in NJ.

 

[Rokman]

My RCBS 1500 Chargemaster has been great the last couple of years after getting an initial bug out of it at RCBS's expense. I check it with an RCBS 5-0-5 scale and I have flourescent lights hanging about 5' over my bench.

 

[EddieNFL]

I have the older Dillon and it is consistent, but not precise. It weighs 0.1 heavy for every 10 grains. I use it for bullets and brass, so dead-on accuracy isn't as important.

 

[Muttt]

I have a RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale which works just fine. The only problem is, it's very prone to breezes or vibration on the bench. It is also a little slow to stop swinging. It's a very good, very reliable, very accurate scale. But, it is a little slow to use.

I have since bought a Franklin Arsenal digital powder scale. It cost me 40 bucks. It's small and battery powered. It comes with check weights and can be zero'd with a powder receptical. I have checked it against my RCBS scale and it is accurate to a 10th of a grain. That's pretty damn accurate in my books. I can easily calibrate it using the included check weights (which I do before each session) and can also bounce it against my RCBS scale. Using my RCBS uniflow powder measurer along with the digital scale makes measuring an accurate load very fast and repeatable. I keep the beam scale in case my digital craps out. But, I normal don't use the beam scale. The 40 dollar digital scale is more than enough scale to do what I need.

 

[Steve Marshall]

I had a Dillon for several years. It started acting up with floating zeroes..Dillon's solution? Buy another as there is no warranty on electronic devices. My solution? 168 JHPBT at 2600 fps. I won't own another digital scale. As to the variation in charge weight? Scales should not be subject to vibration or drafts or, in the case of digitals, fluorescent lighting or electrical anything nearby. Get a beam scale. Weights will tell you if the scale is defective. If not, it's the powder measure. But something would have to be really screwed up for 748 not to meter well.

 

[EddieNFL]

Scales should not be subject to vibration or drafts...

That severely limits the choices.

 

[oneounceload]

Scales should not be subject to vibration or drafts or, in the case of digitals, fluorescent lighting or electrical anything nearby. Get a beam scale.

Sounds like the culprit to me.....had an electronic scale/powder dispenser.....went back to the RCBS 5-10 after several failures.........I weigh every rifle drop and every 10-20 pistol drop - this scale has served me well for about 30 years

 

[noylj]

Really guys, buy a beam to check the digital? Do you realize that reloading and drugs are about the only activities that still use crude balance beams. Trust me, your balance beams are adequate, but not any more than that. You can't use one balance to check another—you can't possibly determine which one is in error or, most likely, they both are. None of you have a calibrated scale and almost none of you have check weights that are at least class 2. The whole idea that digital is more sensitive to environmental factors is ridiculous—I have never had any electronic balance is any lab I have worked on be sensitive to fluorescent lights. The main sensitivity is the same as a balance beam—air currents and vibrations. However, it is true that when there is a problem with a digital, you know real quick.
If you place your check weight on the balance, you can determine if your balance reads different from the check weight. You still don't know much, since the cheap check weights are no more accurate than the balance and may be less accurate.
The idea is that the sensor in the digital scale has a linear response to force. If you calibrate at 100 grams, and you plot that point and say 105 gram, both going to zero, you will see that your reading in the sub 20 grain region is almost totally unaffected.
If you put your check weight on the balance and it reads consistently for some period, say 30 seconds, then you balance is not drifting.
If you leave your balance on all the time, it will always be equilibrated to the room's temperature.
There are so many ways for a powder measure to be inconsistent, including I think sometimes the phase of the moon, that any deviation if charge weight is 99.999+% of the time due to something in the powder measure.
Believe me, the balance beams used for reloading are so crude compared to any lab balance as to be laughable.
Balance beam rules:
Always keep the balance beam off the fulcrum unless it is in use.
Always keep the balance protected from dirt, dust, and air flow.
Never touch any part of the balance or weights with your hands. Use only soft-tipped forcepts.
Keep all check weights under desiccant and return them at least once a year for calibration.
At least once a year have the balance completely cleaned and all wear surfaces inspected. Any wear points will be replaced or the balance scrapped.
Do not apply oil to any surface or use balance in an area where aerosol products will be used.
So, how many of you have your balance beam sitting out in the open?
How many of you have the beam resting on fulcrum, instead of removing it and keeping everything covered?
There is a reason why all laboratories use digital balances (except for extremely tiny weight determinations in the pico gram range).

 

[paperwork351]

That second test is acceptable with the Dillon measure. I have noticed that variations in force at the bottom of the ram stroke will be different than what I set. Also when the powder level gets to one quarter it gets lighter. 10-15 throws at the beginning of session works best for me for checking the charge. Then every so often. I used to tap twice on the upstroke for a RCBS Uniflow. My Dillon scale is spot on with the weight when i come back to it though I have to zero every time.

 

[Rokman]

My RCBS Chargemaster has proven to be accurate and I occasionally check it against my 5-0-5 scale. Since I do have one I can check to see if there are any discrepancies between them. I bought the beam scale first and probably would not go that route again.

 

[RidgwayCO]

In answer to your question about a balance beam scale, my RCBS 10-10 has always worked extremely well, and I like it's integrated dust cover. But I hear good things about the RCBS 5-10, the Redding, and the Hornady scales as well.

To help the measurements on my RCBS digital scale not wander around, I've found that a 30 minute warmup (minimum) helps enormously. Sometimes, if I know I'll be reloading over several days, I won't even turn it off. It's used primarily to check the RCBS 10-10, but also for quick checks of bullet weight, etc.

Finally, when changing disks on my Lee Pro Auto-Disk powder measure, I always cycle through at least 5 to 10 powder throws before checking the powder weight. It seems to take that long for the powder throws to settle down. Spherical powders require much less "settling down" than the flake powders...

 

[Steve Marshall]

New tech better than old tech? Not even hardly. Is a digital scale more accurate? I don't mean resolution, I'm talking accuracy. Is a digital quicker? Does the balance need batteries or voltage regulators or warm up time? Can you calibrate a digital once at the high and low end and then trust physics?
If you want to be SURE of the weight, you use a balance.

 

[Fishman777]

How is the airflow...

I've worked in labs for the last 15 years. I've used labatory grade scales (balances) that measure down to micrograms (1/100,000 of a gram). All digital scales will be affected by vibrations and airflow.

 

[Offfhand]

Several days ago I spent a very enlightening day observing shooters at the International Benchrest (IBS) Championships. These are the most exacting shooters/reloaders on earth and it was was interesting to note that quite a few of them were using the RCBS Chargemaster. One of the completitors, who set what may become the new 200 yd. world record, told me he does all his loading with a chargemaster. Seems to me that real word results like this trump opinions when it comes to debating what works and what doesn't.

 

[OldMac]

I think that run of 10 measures is acceptable for the limits of the powder and measure. Now if you are measuring 3.1 or 3.3 when trying to get 3.2, then I would use a trickler to get it spot on.

I would like to see a bench rest group of 26.1 loads vs. 26.3 on the same target so we could tell if .1/26.2 is worth the time. I doubt a hog will care but it might be the difference in silver vs. gold medal.

 

[MinnMooney]

I have 2 electronic scales and one beam scale. I used to test one against the other quite often but there was NEVER a discrepancy so I now compare only at the start and middle of a reloading session. Always the same (+/- 0.1 gr).

 

[EddieNFL]

Trust me, your balance beams are adequate, but not any more than that.

If you place your check weight on the balance, you can determine if your balance reads different from the check weight. You still don't know much, since the cheap check weights are no more accurate than the balance and may be less accurate.

What are the odds that my decades old Redding (oil dampened, no less) would weight exactly what the check weights advertise, time after time after time...? Ten or twelve different weights.

I'm buying a lottery ticket.