How sturdy a table...?

[Xori Ruscuv]

I don't have any reloading equipment yet, but I am looking to get serious about reloading. I am planning to buy a Dillon 550B to start out with. I know it is a little more complicated than some other more-often advised starter presses, but I want something that will last me a while - I can handle a learning curve.

I've seen all sorts of advice on all sorts of topics. I have no shortage to choose from on just about any topic. There is just one thing I am missing.

How sturdy a table should I be getting for the equipment?
I know there are those with garages and workshops and... eh, I don't, unfortunately. I'm poor. I live in a 2 bedroom second floor apartment with my fiance (who loves guns and is sharing in the cost of the reloading equipment ), and I'm planning on putting the reloading bench in the smaller (unused) bedroom with some other things (going to move my safe to there from a closet, put in a guest bed, bookcases, etc.) Unfortunately the room is carpeted, so I'm going to build some sort of hard floor platform to set the bench up on.

But just how sturdy does the table need to be? Will a thick/sturdy oak table from Ikea do the trick? Or do I need to go the bomb-proof Craftsman workbench route? I don't have a problem saving more money, it isn't an issue of the activity not being worth the money - I am just trying to get an idea of what problems exist with a weaker bench, what problems I can live with, and balancing the problems with the cost

Oohh. Bonus question! How loud are brass tumblers? Can I get one that is silent enough to not anger the neighbors, resulting in me having to explain what the noise is an getting evicted for being a gun-nut?

Silly questions, I know - but you had to expect that someone would ask someday

Thanks!

EDIT
PS: I just realized that I might actually want to set this up in my actual bedroom - there might be some room along that wall there... It gets miserably hot in my apartment during the summer so I have an air conditioner. The air conditioner is in my bedroom. Do the math! What dimensions are typically called for on a decent reloading bench? Obviously I'm not starting with tons of equipment and stuff - by the time I can afford that hopefully I will be living in a house with a workshop...

 

[444]

You need a solid table.
If your table is not solid, the press won't prime the cases correctly. This is one of those personal experience things.
I have two workbenches that I bought at something like Home Depot. There is a metal frame and a particle board top. I bought the tables at different times (started out with one and then later expanded to two benches). I have a Dillon 550 mounted to each table on a "strong mount" which is a mount sold by Dillon. The second press never primed correctly. It would fail to drop a primer at random intervals. I couldn't figure out why. I took it apart over and over and cleaned everything over and over but it still happened. Then I read a post on an on-line forum that gave me the answer. The table top on the second table was much thinner than the one on the first bench. I thought it was lightweight when I put it together and intended to replace it but it was one of those things I never got around to. When I would cycle the press, the table top would flex a tiny amount. You don't want this. So, I fixed it by beefing up the table top and now it runs fine.
This doesn't mean you need a large bench. It just needs to be solid. Put a top on it a couple inches thick: glue a couple pieces of plywood or particle board together and then bolt the press to it.

 

[Primersinmyshoe]

I agree with 444, the table must be rock solid - which may be kinda hard to do in a second story apartment. Here's a link to some workbench plans which I used to make a bench for my brass tumblers. You could beef up the lumber used to make it heavier. Consider anchoring it to the wall and (if possible) put in a vertical support going up to the celing. In fact, here's a picture of my brass cleaning station, showing the bench I made:


The plans can be found here: http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/workshop/bench/below20.html

The vibratory case cleaners are loud, and I would think your neighbors could hear it. Consider putting it outside or in a garage. Sometimes I have both going at the same time, luckily I have an understanding wife.

Good luck.

 

[C. H. Luke]

Elaborate:

http://www.ray-vin.com/tech/cornerbench.htm

 

[ulflyer]

Xori: if you have access to basic tools and can make your own you can make it the size to fit your work space. I made one very similar to the one above, using 2 X 4's and 5/8" thick plywood (not particle board). Mine is about 3 ft square and and by using a lot of wood is heavy enough that it does not have to be attached to a wall or floor. I have one 550 bolted down, but later added a second one and just used large wood screws into the plywood. Thats the one I use most and its both sturdy and steady. Either make it short enough for the chair you use, or use a higher chair, that you can see down into the case after the powder has been put in to insure its a. there, and b. not a double charge. Raining cats and dogs here, but when it stops I'll take a pic and post it for you.

 

[redneck2]

The dilemma comes in then you consider the leverage that's created. You're pulling with maybe 20# of force, but it's at the end of the reloading arm, so there's a lot of torque. Think in terms of hanging two 10# sacks of potatoes off a 3 foot rod that's only bolted to a 4 inch square area

Either bolt it to the wall or put lots of weight in the back to offset the torque. I have a cast iron workbench with oak 2x6's and it works fine. If the bench doesn't weigh over 700# it would suprise me

The post above about flexing is totally correct. My first bench was made from a surplus cabinet. Top was 3/4" plywood. Not strong enough.

 

[armoredman]

Oddly enough, for my single stage,(where I can check each primer, etc), I work just fine on a converted TV stand, on carpet.

Plenty of space for starting out, and for a beginner like me, the single stage was the best way to start. If I hadn't broken the middle shelf on the TV stand, I'd have all the storage rom for components I need for a while.
Tumbler runs on carpet, too, and after the brass shakes out into the media, it's not very loud at all.

Don't run it at midnight, and your downstairs neightbors can't complain. You only need to run it for about an hour, so tell them it's that bad clothes dryer they sold you.....

 

[moredes]

Armored,

A faster media separator that was as cheap is one of those wire onion baskets--bigger gaps, and 'way less "bowl".

I'm with Redneck; I bought a Home Depot workbench years ago--4x4 legs, 2x4 shelving braces and a 6'x3' surface area. You'da thought it was heavy enough to mount a press, but that thing wobbled all over until I used the shelf to store 300lb of lead shot and and all my bullets.

 

[SASS#23149]

I agree the weight of the bench is the thing.I use 4x4's for the posts and 5/8 ply for the top.Don't forget to leave an inch or so hangover on the front for bolting/clamping equpemtn to.2" is better.
I have never seen the need for the strong mounts on a solid bench.But then I've never used 'em,so who knows.
I find it awkward to load sitting down so made the bench tall enough to stand and be more comfortable...no stooping on the down stroke.
If you're doing pistol brass just us a bit of lube on every tenth case,or a spritz on One Shot on the cases and thefriction is practically non-existant.

As to the tumblers,I would think that putting them on a inch or two of foam would silence them rather well.SCRATCH THAT,FIRE HAZARD!! If you put in a capful of Fltiz media polish now and then it cuts the tumbeling time quite a bit.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Most people use the vibratory type tumblers and they can be noisy. You could always consider the true "tumbler" that has a rotating drum. It is a lot quieter but will take much longer. Typically these are used for rock polishing where they are run for several days at a time with successive grit abrasives. Cost would be about a wash. It all depends on what your throughput is anticipated to be.

 

[Mal H]

For the sound problem with the vibratory case cleaner, you can do what I've done in the past. Put it on a timer so that it operates at a time when no one will be around. If you know the schedule of the folks in the apartment below, you can set it to run when they are at work. Try to isolate it from the floor and you might be able to pull it off. I would be leary of placing directly on a carpet for fear of fire. Fires from cleaners occur more often than you might suspect; the motor gets very hot and needs air circulation.

I'm going to go somewhat against the grain on the "how sturdy" question. I wanted to do some reloading in the field, so I bought one of the portable stands from Midway. When it came, I thought to myself that it sure looked flimsy and would tip over over with every pull of the handle. Oddly enough, it doesn't and it works well for its intended purpose. Most of the force is directed down into the table rather than pulling on the table. That's why armoredman's TV stand works well. I do think the table should be as sturdy as you can make it, but it doesn't have to be built like a tank.

 

[SASS#23149]

Mal H is correct...

So forget my suggestion to put the tumbler on pieces of foam.I"d forgotten where the motor is ,and they DO get hot.
thanks Mal!

 

[moredes]

To silence a tumbler, I went to the hardware store and bought 4 soft rubber stoppers and contact cemented them on.

 

[ulflyer]

My Homemade Table

Xori: here is a pic of my table. Never moves, wiggles, or shakes, and not screwed/nailed down. Maybe if I were to try loading really fast and whacking that lever up and down it would move, but I'm a slow mover, prob no more than 200 an hour including loading up the primers. It sits level on a solid floor. If you have to sit it on carpet that might cause it to move some.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Think about lead in the house -

I started loading with a Lyman Tong Tool in the 1960's and moved up from there to a dedicated room - hardwood flooring - and back down. Certainly pays to match the table to the press and the Dillon takes a no bounce table top - for a single stage press the lovely Sinclair wood stand or an equivalent will almost but not quite do on a TV dinner tray table - then too no bounce is nice for scales. Lots of variables in case lubes and reduction in sizing from just barely squeezing the neck to case forming or using small base dies on over length machine gun brass.

I like a sturdy but replaceable top cover - say light plywood tacked over 1-3/4 or what have you base (ripped and doubled plywood or particle board in my case) especially for bullet casting and burns and hot lead spills but also chemicals from gun cleaning. You may not do everything on the same bench but I mostly do.

I'd worry a whole lot more about lead exposure from the decapping and tumbling and separating from the media operations in a spare bedroom with a carpeted floor - I didn't sweat the lead when I was young but now I begrudge every neuron lost. Only knew one person to die from a spilled powder flareup though.

 

[bogie]

You don't need a mondo-sturdy table. I routinely use folding tables like you can get at Office Whoosis... Remember - you're just pushing the brass in, and pulling it out. Pushing it in "harder" isn't gonna do a whole heck of a lot.

Put your press on a 2x6, and clamp that to the top. Put enough heavy stuff on top of the table to stablize it, and go to town.

 

[TooTaxed]

From my experience loading in a high-rise apartment: The key to the strength you need is the cartridge you are going to load.

For all pistol (9-mm MAK, 9-mm Luger, .38 Spl, .357 Mag, .40 S&W, .45 Auto, and .45 Colt, I use one of the small collapsible Black and Decker work tables (bought dirt cheap at a garage sale) strengthened with a piece of 3/4" plywood bolted to the top. I have a single-stage RCBS-Jr tool and a Pacific powder measure bolted to that with 3/8" carriage bolts and wingnuts over a washer. My beam powder measure and Lyman 1200 auto scale/measure are located on a separate adjacent light table so they can't be disturbed by the press activity. This setup is great for loading while watching TV in the evenings with the family, as I run batches of several hundred cases through each individual step before proceeding to the next. (You should load the powder and set bullets without distractions...you need full attention on this stage.)

I can also load any rifle case stage on that except for full-length resizing, which must be done on a sturdy bench elsewhere...mine has a 2x4 frame including support for a 3/4" plywood top. My progressive Lee Loadmaster is mounted there also...don't want the distractions of trying to watch TV or talk with the family while I'm using that complex loader.

The vibratory case tumbler shouldn't pose a problem as long as you don't do it late at night, and muffle it. Place the tumbler on two layers of carpet and place one or two cardboard boxes over it to muffle the sound.

 

[Chawbaccer]

I used to use something similar to this with a double layer of 3/4 plywood for the top. the sloping sides made it very sturdy.

 

[armoredman]

I worried about the heat from the Franford Arsenal tumbler on the carpet, but I ran it for a few hours once, and the carpet was barely warm. I also always run it when I am home, and check it often. I only run for an hour or so at a time, which is more than sufficient to polish up the brass I have right now.

 

[Brian Williams]

Get a used desk and some C clamps. You can store the loading stuff in the drawers when you are done, and it is plenty sturdy to handle the heaviest reloading problems.

 

[goon]

I kind of wish that I had built my reloading bench bigger, heavier, and to be more easily disassmbled for transport.
It is built with a 2x4 frame and 2x6's for the table top. Plywood on top would have been better but it is functional the way it is.
I had to weight the lower part of it with a couple 30 pound sand bags to keep it from tipping when resizing some rifle cases. When I resize military 7.62x51 brass I have to put my feet on the braces that go across the bottom front and use both hands.
It strains and cries at such times but it does work.
Still though, bigger, sturdier, tougher, and able to be "field stripped" without too much headache are the modifications that I have planned for my next reloading bench.

 

[W Turner]

My reloading/gunmaintenance/cleaning bench is an old metal desk with a 1" particle board top. I also built a tall, 6" deep shelving unit that sits on the back of the desk. I just bolted my Lee turret press to the top and it has worked fine. Many times these desks can be found at surplus office supply store fairly cheaply.


W

 

[Wedge]

I lived in a 2 bedroom second story apartment when I started reloading. I used a particle board executive's desk that my wife and I had bought to give us more room for doing bills and that sort of thing...well it just became a table so I turned it into a reloading bench.

The sucker is heavy. I recently moved and all the drawers got broken in the move so now it is just a big heavy table. I screwed a 2x4 to the edge of the desk and then mounted my Lee Challenger press to the 2x4 and desk with some carriage bolts. I put the 2x4 on the table surface to help spread the load...particle board is pretty weak.

I think any old desk should work. If the top is particle board and not very sturdy I would recommend putting some plywood on top to stiffen it up. The press itself really doesn't take up that much room.

When I was in the aparment if I closed the door I couldn't really hear the case cleaner. I never got any complaints. We kept it in a carpeted room, and we got all of our money back from the security deposit. I would say just go to town. You can always make your bench (table, desk, whatever) a little sturdier by adding some wood to the top and keeping your lead on the bottom to help hold it down.

Good luck!

 

[esheato]

I live in a two bedroom upstairs apartment. I'm loading at least 2,000 rounds of pistol a month. I run the tumbler in the bathroom (linoleum floor with the door closed) at all hours of the day and night. I'm always asking the people below me if I'm making too much noise. They always reply in the negative so I don't worry about it. I trust that they'll knock on my door and ask to keep it down before the manager is awakened.

I chose not to run the tumbler on carpet due to ventilation concerns rather than the heat it generates. I'd prefer not to buy another one..especially if the motor died because of something I did.

I guess a lot depends on the construction of your building and the patience of your neighbors.

Ed

 

[txgho1911]

Narrow Desk (read Credenza)

2" top with drawers. Lag bolts and washers. My lil 8# hammer will not move it quick.
Corperations throw these away every day. Banks and Insurance companies are replacing the slightly blemmished to slightly faded pieces day in day out. I am going to get a 2nd and a 3rd to line up in the garage on the wall.

Another tumbler idea I struck was a rolling barrel in the truck bed. suspend it through the center and place win vanes to cause it to roll. Most of the ranges in my area are a min 45 min drive to 2hours. Highway speeds and a steady tumble. Back n forth to work in a weeks time and everything in there is shiny by Thur or Fri night.