How to take the next step with sporting clays

[guywithfastcar]

Hello guys and gals,
Not sure if this is the right place or if it should be in a different category. Looking for advice… I’ve become a huge fan of clay shooting- sportys in particular. I can usually score in the high 30’s-low 40’s depending on the difficulty of the course. I’d like to get more serious about the sport and try to pick up an extra clay or two and be more consistent.
I’ve found a shooting instructor within reasonable driving distance and plan on spending some time with them in the spring (winter in Wisconsin isn’t ideal). I’ve watched some YouTube videos and I find those to be pretty helpful.
I run a very cheap pardner pump 12g with a modified choke, and I try out different shells and velocities etc. I realize the pump isn’t ideal but I shoot it really well and already own it…. So I run it.
I guess my questions are as follows: 1) should I be looking into the NRA shotgun courses at all for extra help? 2) Should I be experimenting with different choke options or leave that be? 3) Should I be using different shells or pick a load and stick with it? (I tend to like the higher velocity rounds) 4) does the pump really put me at a huge disadvantage? For the cost of a new gun I could get a lot of shells and range time. 5) Anything I forgot ?

Thanks!
Brian

 

[Armored farmer]

Go to the range on a busy day. Watch the good shooters closely. Stalk them. Learn.

Go to the range when they're not busy. Talk to the staff for permission to shoot targets from one or two stands. Shoot from your difficult stands until you get confident and break most of your targets from them.
Head down.
Shoot like your shooting a 22 rifle at the FRONT EDGE of your target..
Pairs: break the first target. Always.
Point your feet where you intend to break the target, swing from your hips...not your arms.

These things will get you 50birds.

 

[Telekinesis]

1) should I be looking into the NRA shotgun courses at all for extra help?

This may be an unpopular opinion, but no. From what I’ve seen, the basic NRA courses are designed to take someone unfamiliar with a type of firearm and make them a SAFE shooter, not to take a safe shooter and make them a BETTER shooter.

2) Should I be experimenting with different choke options or leave that be?

Yes. Your goal should be to have a full pattern (no holes) at X yards. Most people think of chokes as changing the diameter of the pattern at the same distance. For example (using random numbers) “at 30 yards, a Full gives me a 10” pattern, a Mod gives me a 20” pattern, and a IC gives me a 25” pattern”.

Instead, think about it as “I want a full pattern with no holes. The IC starts having holes at 25 yards, the Mod starts having holes at 35 yards, and the full starts having holes at 45 yards”. Then figure out at what distance you plan for the target to be when you shoot it, and use the choke that gives you the largest pattern at that distance without having any holes. That said, a Mod is usually an acceptable middle ground as a do-all choke if you don’t want to swap them around.

The other side to this is that you should try different brands of choke tubes. I have never seen good performance from stock choke tubes from pretty much any company (possible exception of really high dollar guns, but even then I’d be replacing the chokes anyway). I also recommend going with extended choke tubes. That allows you to see what type of choke is in the gun without either removing the choke or decoding hash marks, and it acts as a sacrificial piece should something hit the muzzle. It’s much easier (and cheaper) to replace a choke tube than to replace a barrel.

3) Should I be using different shells or pick a load and stick with it? (I tend to like the higher velocity rounds)

Generally you want to stick with one load. Take a bunch of different ammo (different manufacturers, different shot weight/size, different velocity, etc) and pattern your gun. Find the ammo that works the best (most consistent, POA=POI, fewest fliers) and then always use that ammo. Shotguns will pattern differently with different types of ammo just like a rifle will group differently with different types of ammo.

4) does the pump really put me at a huge disadvantage? For the cost of a new gun I could get a lot of shells and range time.

A good shooter can use a pump with little detriment. One of my favorite things to do is take my HD shotgun (870, short stock, extended mag, fixed cylinder bore, rifle sights - about the exact opposite of what you want for clay shooting) and use it to beat guys who have Perazzis and Krieghoffs. That’s all in good fun, but when I am actually shooting for score I use a gun that is purpose built for competition.

Just on gun type alone, an over/under gives you 2 chokes so on doubles you can take a close bird with the open choke and the far bird with a tighter choke. And on singles you can choose which barrel to shoot based on if a target is close or far (so you don’t have to swap chokes, you just flip a switch). A gun designed for competition will also be able to hold up to significantly higher round counts before things start failing.

Beyond those basic things - with shotguns the fit is incredibly important. The position of your head on the stock is a significant factor in your POA/POI relationship, so you need to get your gun mounted in exactly the same place, at exactly the same angle, every single time. That can obviously be done with a field gun, but it is MUCH easier to be consistent with a gun that has been modified to fit you.



As far as recommendations, I would say you will get much more out of a couple of good training sessions than if you just spent the money on ammo and tried to figure it out yourself. Make sure the person you’re learning from is a good teacher, not just a good shooter.

Use the lessons with an eye towards learning what and how to practice and what “correct” feels like, and then go practice at home. At first you’ll need a lot of practice on mounting correctly and swinging the gun without your head coming off the stock or moving. That can easily be done at home without actually shooting.

Beyond that, when you go to the range to practice, actually have a plan and practice. Don’t just go out and shoot random targets and try a bunch of new/different things. Focus on one or two things you need to work on and then think “I missed, but why did I miss?” Or “I got a hit, what specifically did I do right?” You’ll get much more out of your time that way.

 

[guywithfastcar]

Go to the range on a busy day. Watch the good shooters closely. Stalk them. Learn.

Go to the range when they're not busy. Talk to the staff for permission to shoot targets from one or two stands. Shoot from your difficult stands until you get confident and break most of your targets from them.
Head down.
Shoot like your shooting a 22 rifle at the FRONT EDGE of your target..
Pairs: break the first target. Always.
Point your feet where you intend to break the target, swing from your hips...not your arms.

These things will get you 50birds.

by break the first target always do you mean take 2 shots at it if necessary instead of moving onto the 2nd clay of the pair?

 

[guywithfastcar]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but no. From what I’ve seen, the basic NRA courses are designed to take someone unfamiliar with a type of firearm and make them a SAFE shooter, not to take a safe shooter and make them a BETTER shooter.


Yes. Your goal should be to have a full pattern (no holes) at X yards. Most people think of chokes as changing the diameter of the pattern at the same distance. For example (using random numbers) “at 30 yards, a Full gives me a 10” pattern, a Mod gives me a 20” pattern, and a IC gives me a 25” pattern”.

Instead, think about it as “I want a full pattern with no holes. The IC starts having holes at 25 yards, the Mod starts having holes at 35 yards, and the full starts having holes at 45 yards”. Then figure out at what distance you plan for the target to be when you shoot it, and use the choke that gives you the largest pattern at that distance without having any holes. That said, a Mod is usually an acceptable middle ground as a do-all choke if you don’t want to swap them around.

The other side to this is that you should try different brands of choke tubes. I have never seen good performance from stock choke tubes from pretty much any company (possible exception of really high dollar guns, but even then I’d be replacing the chokes anyway). I also recommend going with extended choke tubes. That allows you to see what type of choke is in the gun without either removing the choke or decoding hash marks, and it acts as a sacrificial piece should something hit the muzzle. It’s much easier (and cheaper) to replace a choke tube than to replace a barrel.


Generally you want to stick with one load. Take a bunch of different ammo (different manufacturers, different shot weight/size, different velocity, etc) and pattern your gun. Find the ammo that works the best (most consistent, POA=POI, fewest fliers) and then always use that ammo. Shotguns will pattern differently with different types of ammo just like a rifle will group differently with different types of ammo.


A good shooter can use a pump with little detriment. One of my favorite things to do is take my HD shotgun (870, short stock, extended mag, fixed cylinder bore, rifle sights - about the exact opposite of what you want for clay shooting) and use it to beat guys who have Perazzis and Krieghoffs. That’s all in good fun, but when I am actually shooting for score I use a gun that is purpose built for competition.

Just on gun type alone, an over/under gives you 2 chokes so on doubles you can take a close bird with the open choke and the far bird with a tighter choke. And on singles you can choose which barrel to shoot based on if a target is close or far (so you don’t have to swap chokes, you just flip a switch). A gun designed for competition will also be able to hold up to significantly higher round counts before things start failing.

Beyond those basic things - with shotguns the fit is incredibly important. The position of your head on the stock is a significant factor in your POA/POI relationship, so you need to get your gun mounted in exactly the same place, at exactly the same angle, every single time. That can obviously be done with a field gun, but it is MUCH easier to be consistent with a gun that has been modified to fit you.



As far as recommendations, I would say you will get much more out of a couple of good training sessions than if you just spent the money on ammo and tried to figure it out yourself. Make sure the person you’re learning from is a good teacher, not just a good shooter.

Use the lessons with an eye towards learning what and how to practice and what “correct” feels like, and then go practice at home. At first you’ll need a lot of practice on mounting correctly and swinging the gun without your head coming off the stock or moving. That can easily be done at home without actually shooting.

Beyond that, when you go to the range to practice, actually have a plan and practice. Don’t just go out and shoot random targets and try a bunch of new/different things. Focus on one or two things you need to work on and then think “I missed, but why did I miss?” Or “I got a hit, what specifically did I do right?” You’ll get much more out of your time that way.

That was an excellent and thorough reply to all my questions! One question with the chokes, is it unusual for someone with a single barrel to bring with them a set of chokes and swap them out during a sporting clays outing? If so, let’s say which 3 would you suggest having in my pocket ?

 

[Telekinesis]

by break the first target always do you mean take 2 shots at it if necessary instead of moving onto the 2nd clay of the pair?

Not to speak for him, but my thoughts…

A lot of new shooters get psyched out when there are two targets flying at the same time and they end up rushing the first shot and then not getting a good sight picture on the second (and missing both targets). Take your time on the first target and make sure you get at least one of them.

That was an excellent and thorough reply to all my questions! One question with the chokes, is it unusual for someone with a single barrel to bring with them a set of chokes and swap them out during a sporting clays outing? If so, let’s say which 3 would you suggest having in my pocket ?

I can’t really say what’s “normal” - I’m a trap shooter and only shoot sporting clays socially when other people invite me. That said, I always have a selection of choke tubes in my vest when I’m shooting and I’m not shy about swapping them out if I think it is warranted.

I’m a big fan of the “Light Mod” (basically a half step between a IC and Mod), but I’m a pretty fast shooter so targets are usually closer. In general if I didn’t have a LM, I would have a Mod in the gun and IC, IM, and Full in your pocket. It depends on the course setup, but in general you’re probably be well set for ~ 75% of targets with just the Mod, adding the IM should get you to ~90+% of the targets, and then IC and Full are for those oddly close or oddly far targets.

They make cases that hold 3 or 4 choke tubes in one case so you’re not juggling all of those single tube cases. I’d recommend getting one of those as well as a better choke tube wrench. I don’t think either are too expensive, but it’ll make swapping chokes much easier.

 

[243winxb]

1) should I be looking into the NRA shotgun courses at all for extra help? 2) Should I be experimenting with different choke options or leave that be? 3) Should I be using different shells or pick a load and stick with it? (I tend to like the higher velocity rounds) 4) does the pump really put me at a huge disadvantage? For the cost of a new gun I could get a lot of shells and range time. 5) Anything I forgot ?

1. No course. 2. I/C & Hard #8 shot may help? More shot, the better. 3. Stick with a 1200 fps load. 4. Pump ok. 5. Shoot more.

 

[Armored farmer]

by break the first target always do you mean take 2 shots at it if necessary instead of moving onto the 2nd clay of the pair?

No.
I mean that you should be mentally prepared for the first bird. Don't be thinking about the PAIR....be prepared for the second bird....but be concentrated on that first bird. Break it. Then chase that second bird. On a true pair.... Break the easier bird first.

 

[Barnfixer]

For sporting clays it took shooting time to develop a routine in my case. This included stance, swing, leads, knowing your equipment, KEEPING YOUR HEAD DOWN! So my vote is to shoot more. I also have to say it’s been more enjoyable with a over/under.

 

[d2wing]

Yes you should get instruction from a certified instructor. A key to shooting well is to make sure you mount the gun properly and that it fits you properly. The goal is that you are pointing the gun at where you are looking. There is some advantage to some actions and better quality guns. In my opinion you could stay with the gun you have if it fits properly or upgrade to a better gun is properly fitted to you. A good instructor can make sure you have the basics to build on. Another thing is swing and follow through. Learn to do it properly then practice, Then practice some more until it is automatic.

 

[Capybara]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but no. From what I’ve seen, the basic NRA courses are designed to take someone unfamiliar with a type of firearm and make them a SAFE shooter, not to take a safe shooter and make them a BETTER shooter.

I concur. I'm an NRA Shotgun Instructor. NRA has offered some workshops and single day events in the past that I know of that were somewhat to improve skills but the NRA Class I teach is for beginners to become a safe shooter while busting a prescribed number of clays. There is very little shooting technique beyond the basics in the NRA course.

 

[GE-Mini-Gun]

Shoot more. Not what you want to hear…at some point the gun will be holding you back, but that is going to be WAY down the road, WAY down. I’d hold off on the instruction, until you get into the mid 50’s…

 

[kalielkslayer]

I think there is some confusion on your high 30s, low 40s. That’s 50 targets? Either just the front 1/2, or the back?

At some point the pump will hold you back. I hunted waterfowl in my teens and early 20s with a pump and I was confident I could shoot it just as fast as anyone with a semi. That was until I bought a semi. First hint I realized I was dealing with less recoil and getting on the second bird quicker.

I only shoot sporting clays a few times a year, but I shoot skeet weekly. The best advice I ever got was “break that bird as fast as you can.”

At first, my scores dropped a little. Within 10-12 rounds, they improved to better than before.

It translated well to both trap (shooting the bird closer) and sporting clays (more time for the second clay). But it was tough at first. I find when I start missing, it’s usually my 3rd or 4th round and I get lazy and stop trying to break it as soon as possible, a lack of concentration.

But the more you shoot, the better you’ll be.