How to tell if target is AR500 steel?

[loose noose]

I've got a steel silhouette (popper) that is fairly large, that I've had for quite a long time 20+ years that I've shot with 45-70 but at 100-500 yards using cast lead, as well as jacketed rounds. I've also shot handguns to include .22RF as well as 9mm and .45ACP as close as 25yards.Now I've never even so much as dented the steel (no pock marks) etc. I've finally after going thru at least 3 high speed drill bits finally drilled a hole thru the nearly 1/2" steel head of the silhouette and planned on hanging it up at least 100 yards and shooting it at 100-500 yards, and shooting it with 5.56 as well as 7.62X39 and even a .270. I know that if it is AR500 steel rated it should take it. Please tell me what ya all think.

 

[Riomouse911]

It should be fine at 100 yds plus...I have two 1/2” ipsc silhouettes that’s handled hundreds of rounds at 50 to 100 yds from .30-06 FMJ on down with nothing more than tiny divots.

I will suggest you stay away from the steel penetrator 5.56 rounds though. They’ll dent and ding the steel quickly.

Stay safe!

 

[loose noose]

Thanks Riomouse911, for the quick response, the problem is I'm not sure if it is AR500 steel, is there anyway you can tell, as I would hate to shoot holes thru it.

 

[Kabic]

If it does this at 100 yards it is not...



This was a pistol rated target from Walmart I was testing....shooting the other side only now...38 special just splatters with no damage to target

 

[WrongHanded]

I work in the steel fab industry. I've worked with AR400 and AR500 just a bit, as well as high manganese steel and hardox. I know the high manganese steel we have used in none magnetic, but as far as the others go, I can't recall. I know we only cut the hardened steels such as these with plasma and oxy acetylene. We tried cutting the manganese with a bandsaw once and it tore the teeth right off the blade. But we can press break and plate roll all of it, as far as I can recall.

Other than chemical analysis, I think it's going to be difficult to tell exactly what you have. I could ask some people at work, but I doubt I'd get a definitive answer.

Perhaps just try shooting the corner or outer edge with one of those calibers you intend to use, and see what happens.

 

[Jim Watson]

Find a machine shop or school shop with a Brinell or Rockwell machine.

Get a piece of known material and eyeball differences in the divot from whacking it with a punch.

 

[loose noose]

I thank all of your replies, I do know that I did use a punch in order to get a center of the head hole started, I did use titanium drill bits to get the hole drilled, which I discarded after use, BTW I did use a drill press in drilling the single hole. Reckon I'll have to place it out to 200+or- yards and try it first with the .223 soft points.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

This won't tell you if its AR500 but it will tell you if its hardened steel:
Get an ordinary hand file. Somewhat lightly push it across an edge of the target. If its a mild steel the file will dig in a little and remove some metal. If its hardened steel the file will just kinda skate across the edge and barely leave a scratch. I'd suggest doing a similar test on a piece of metal that you know is mild steel to get an idea of the sound and feel.

But again, that won't tell you if its AR500. Even having it mass spectrometry tested can't tell you that. Mass spec will only tell you if the chemical composition is consistent with typical AR500. There's more to AR500 than just the alloy. If the heat treating process wasn't done correctly it won't be through-hardened. But I've tried drilling 3/8" metal that was mill certified as AR400, using titanium nitrided dill bits. If the piece you have is AR500 I'm surprised you didn't burn up more bits.

 

[bearcreek]

I've got a steel silhouette (popper) that is fairly large, that I've had for quite a long time 20+ years that I've shot with 45-70 but at 100-500 yards using cast lead, as well as jacketed rounds. I've also shot handguns to include .22RF as well as 9mm and .45ACP as close as 25yards.Now I've never even so much as dented the steel (no pock marks) etc. I've finally after going thru at least 3 high speed drill bits finally drilled a hole thru the nearly 1/2" steel head of the silhouette and planned on hanging it up at least 100 yards and shooting it at 100-500 yards, and shooting it with 5.56 as well as 7.62X39 and even a .270. I know that if it is AR500 steel rated it should take it. Please tell me what ya all think.

How big of a hole did you drill? Most drill presses made for wood work turn way too fast for drilling steel, even mild steel, and will burn up bits rapidly, especially anything bigger than 1/2" or so. That being said, if the drill press was turning at an appropriate speed, you were using cutting fluid and the steel was firmly secured and it still burned up the bits, I'd say you more than likely have some sort of hardened steel. AR400, AR500 or AR550. Personally, again assuming that the drilling was done properly, I'd just shoot it and see.

 

[loose noose]

They were 3/8" titanium bits using a generous amount of oil, btw my drill press is a 6 speed, and I did have the popper secured to the press, I'll run out back and take a picture here shortly.

 

[Bottom Gun]

It's not a very scientific method but I can tell my AR500 plates from mild steel alloys by the higher pitched ring if I wack them with a wrench or a hammer.

 

[SamT1]

I’d think the 45-70 would pit mild steel. I have a 1/2” mild steel dualing tree. Full house 44 mag cast lead gas checks put some minor pits in it from a Carbine at 30 yards. I called it a cast lead only tree, but now it’s a cast pistol tree.

 

[bearcreek]

They were 3/8" titanium bits using a generous amount of oil, btw my drill press is a 6 speed, and I did have the popper secured to the press, I'll run out back and take a picture here shortly.

The number of speeds isn't so important as much as the RPM's that you're using. My experience is that it's almost impossible to turn the drill too slow when drilling mild steel but it's very easy to drill too fast. I reconfigured my drill press to only turn at one speed of less than 300 RPM's, which is far slower than most drill presses designed for wood working. Have you done much drilling of mild steel with this drill press before?

I’d think the 45-70 would pit mild steel. I have a 1/2” mild steel dualing tree. Full house 44 mag cast lead gas checks put some minor pits in it from a Carbine at 30 yards. I called it a cast lead only tree, but now it’s a cast pistol tree.

I would sure think so as well. I know for a fact that 12 gauge shotgun slugs put a huge crater in mild steel from 50 yards. I bet 45-70 would do similar.

 

[loose noose]

I've drilled a lot of mild steel using this drill, in fact I've used the same bit several times, before having it sharpened. I've built the base of target stands for a number of friends as well as when I was a range master for a couple of casinos out here. Like I said I've had that popper for at least 25 years and the base is pretty well wore out, anyway I thought I'd get a mount from JC Steel and use it out at my desert range, but at the same time I'd hate to put a bunch of holes in it if you know what I mean. I do know that when I shot the 45-70 at it a gave a real nice twang all the way back to 500 yards when hit. I can honestly say I've never drilled any steel quite that hard and literally destroyed my bits. I may just try a shot at it with the .223/5.56 and let ya know the results out to 250 yards.

 

[Jim Watson]

One small hole near the corner won't hurt much.

 

[Riomouse911]

Sure sounds like you have hardened steel, I doubt you’ll see much damage at all with it at 250 from a .223. All of my old mild steel craters at 200 and holes get punched at shorter range. Since yours hasn’t ever cratered, I think you’re good to go.

 

[reddog81]

There's a big difference from .22 LR, 9mm, 45 ACP and 5.56. 5.56 can cut through steel like butter vs the others. I'd test out a bottom corner at 200 yards with one 7.62 shot and see what happens. If that doesn't leave a mark, shoot it some more and then re-inspect. If everything looks OK than I'd try one shot of 5.56 at 200 yards and inspect it.

 

[loose noose]

When I say 5.56 that is what all my .223's with the exception of one bolt action rifle and a Thompson Contender rifle/pistol combo. I do reload for the .223, as well as the 5.56, but generally when reloading for the 5.56 I usually use soft point or hollow point ammo: If this wind ever stops blowing again I'll get out there and test it and take another photo.

 

[gbw]

I can’t help with non-destructive I’d of AR500 plate but judging from your drilling report they are not untreated low carbon mild steel.

My AR500 targets show virtually no effect from 5.56 and .308 fmj at 90 yds, except they will chip slightly if hit on an edge.

Old bush hog blades act about the same, btw.

The mild steel targets stand up well to nearly all handguns, but very heavy .41 magnums dimple them very slightly. Magnum shotgun slugs, and 30-30 Jsp crater them, all other rifles put holes through them.

All steel is 3/8 plate.

 

[jbmillard]

I can’t help with non-destructive I’d of AR500 plate but judging from your drilling report they are not untreated low carbon mild steel.

My AR500 targets show virtually no effect from 5.56 and .308 fmj at 90 yds, except they will chip slightly if hit on an edge.

Old bush hog blades act about the same, btw.

The mild steel targets stand up well to nearly all handguns, but very heavy .41 magnums dimple them very slightly. Magnum shotgun slugs, and 30-30 Jsp crater them, all other rifles put holes through them.

All steel is 3/8 plate.

My targets do show pitting after a few thousand rounds and even some holes with .223 (55 gn FMJ) at 50-100 yards.

I think the real question is what AR500. From what I've read, the AR500 is really about hardness and wear properties. One mill's AR500 is likely different in composition (chemical that is) than anothers. The specs are something like 470 to 530 in hardness.

Not sure why you think all steel is 3/8" plate. I've had 1/2" and 3/4" targets.

 

[SamT1]

My targets do show pitting after a few thousand rounds and even some holes with .223 (55 gn FMJ) at 50-100 yards.

I think the real question is what AR500. From what I've read, the AR500 is really about hardness and wear properties. One mill's AR500 is likely different in composition (chemical that is) than anothers. The specs are something like 470 to 530 in hardness.

Not sure why you think all steel is 3/8" plate. I've had 1/2" and 3/4" targets.

My AR500 has some pits too now. Someone shot it with something that wasn’t good on it. Brother says it was a friends 22-250 not sure what loading in that would take small chunks out.
3/8 is the most popular. It needs to be that thick to hold shape and not shatter on rifles, but anything thicker at much range and you can’t see a reaction. My 800 target is a tandem disk. It’s something hard as a rock that’s not quite 1/4” thick. Shoot it Way too close and you get a ragged hole. Shoot it at mid range and you’ll take a chunk out of it. But at 600 yards or more it dances pretty good even hit with a light 223 round.

 

[Tilos]

A spark test will tell you what material it is:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?...vt=spark+test+chart+for+AR500+steel&FORM=IGRE
https://content.invisioncic.com/r226025/monthly_07_2008/post-1230-1214904317.gif

 

[gbw]

My targets do show pitting after a few thousand rounds and even some holes with .223 (55 gn FMJ) at 50-100 yards.

I think the real question is what AR500. From what I've read, the AR500 is really about hardness and wear properties. One mill's AR500 is likely different in composition (chemical that is) than anothers. The specs are something like 470 to 530 in hardness.

Not sure why you think all steel is 3/8" plate. I've had 1/2" and 3/4" targets.

I thought it was clear I was talking about my targets, all of which are 3/8”. The mild steel pistol targets have many thousands of hits but I believe your rifle targets have had more use. Calibers, bullet composition, velocity, range, and number of impacts may all effect wear. About 100 yards is about as close as I care to get with HV rifles.

There should be an iso standard for AR500 steel but of course that’s no guarantee everyone follows it, or even that the sellers know what they’re selling, about best we can do is use established reputable suppliers.

 

[jmorris]

Judging from your difficulty drilling a single hole I’d say your good. Shoot it once, if it puts a crater in it, weld it up, sand it back down and don’t use it for rifle rounds anymore.

 

[beeenbag]

Definitely over thinking this. As stated above, welding up a hole in mild steel is as simple as it gets. If it’s AR500, there won’t be a hole, if there is a hole, then you now know what it is and it’s a simple fix. Metal is one of the easiest materials to repair. It’s how I make a living.