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How to use lube on a patch and a roundball

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Kitchen_Duty, Jun 6, 2011.

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  1. Kitchen_Duty

    Kitchen_Duty Member

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    I've bought a T/C hawken 50 cal percussion fired ML:

    So I've ordered my gun and all the accessories for my firearm. I ordered two different lubricants to be used on patches: mink oil and ballistol.

    My question is how do I apply this lube on the patch itself, which seems to be missing from most general pages.

    First question: do i actually need the lube to fire the gun? Most websites I've seen saying it helps increase accuracy and ease of loading. Ok, that's great: do i need it?

    2nd: Will both lubes work?

    3rd: How do I apply it, one is in an aerosol can, I can handle that, one is a harder paste. Do I apply it to both sides, just one, liberally or conservatively?

    4th: Do i need to worry about applying too much or will the excess just wear a hole in my wallet over time?

    Thanks in advance.

    -Kitchen
     
  2. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    The post below describes how to apply liquid Ballistol to make "dry" lubed patches.
    But if using it in an aerosol then it can be applied directly to the patches.
    Be sure to impregnate the patches with enough lube to be effective but not too much to oversaturate the patch.

    http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4172296&postcount=6

    The mink oil is applied differently.
    If it's a paste then it can be applied by rubbing it in by hand, or maybe it can be melted into the patches by briefly microwaving it like folks do when applying Bore Butter.
    Patch lube is beneficial and really should be used. Folks prefer to use patches loaded with spit than to load with dry patches. Lube helps to keep the fouling soft which helps to push the fouling back down the bore after each shot.
    Lube also helps to keep the patches from tearing when the ball is started in a tight muzzle and to make ramming easier.
    The alternative is to swab the bore after each shot or several shots which some folks do anyway to maintain best accuracy. But if using an adequate amount of lube then swabbing can be delayed for many shots if desired.
    Some folks can shoot for many hours without swabbing because each time a lubed patch is rammed it's almost like swabbing the bore clean for the next shot.
    Accuracy may suffer a little bit doing it that way, but sometimes swabbing the bore clean can change the accuracy too by altering the point of impact of a partially fouled barrel. How often the bore needs to be swabbed can depend on how much powder is being loaded. The more powder loaded the more powder fouling there will be left behind in the bore that can interfere with ramming after it begins to accumulate.
    Applying too much lube to the patches is claimed to hurt accuracy, but generally it's better to use a little too much lube then not enough. Some of the excess lube will get squeezed out of the patch at the muzzle when the ball is started.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  3. SleazyRider

    SleazyRider Member

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    I bought one pound of bullet lube for my black powder revolver wads from this here feller:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/black-powder-fo...tage_Hunting&hash=item5adfec0ce4#ht_500wt_689

    Though I intended to use it for pistol wads, I melted a few tablespoons of it in a cat-food can and saturated a batch of TC patches for my .50 caliber Hawken. Normally I just used a generous amount of Crisco applied to both sides of the patch, but this new stuff is much better, and keeps forever without turning rancid. It will not be absorbed by the powder.

    Next up, I'll try some Hoppes Number 9 Bullet Lube, which is supposedly fabulous and does not require rodding between shots.
     
  4. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Lots of different schools of thought. I wouldn't consider Ballistol or Mink Oil as bullet lubes. Ballistol was made for black powder cartridge guns, and Mink Oil was made to keep your feet dry. :D Doesn't mean they won't work great...., I shall have to try the Ballistol.

    I don't like oils as I worry about them contaminating powder, but Ballistol does a good job lubricating things in small amounts so soak-up probably won't be a problem.

    I have seen patches soaked with grease style lubes, like mink oil, and I have used them, in fact I use a mixture of olive oil and beeswax when hunting, but I no longer soak the patches. I apply the lube to the side of the cloth that will come into contact with the barrel. I was told this is better, and have found it seems to give me a bit better accuracy. I also use spit patching when target shooting, and it works well.

    No such thing as a lube that doesn't require "rodding" between shots. You may find you can load two or three shots when starting with a clean barrel, before you first need to rod, and rod more often as you continue, for the crud will build. So some lubes may be "cleaner" than others, but all of them will need a barrel wipe, and depending on your gun it may make zero difference as some don't shoot well unless you wipe between shots to maintain accuracy, as getting it loaded is the only the first half of the task. :)

    LD
     
  5. RugerMcMarlin

    RugerMcMarlin Member

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    Agree 100% with loyalist Dave. 1s for boots and holsters, I always took the other as a rust preventative. I use bore butter. Put a spot the size of a booger,
    between thumb and forefinger, now use patch to wipe off, thumb and forefinger.
    That should be the correct amount. Bear or possum grease works ,so I guess you could use mink oil. Just don't run yourself low, it doesn't take much of a squeeky mink to get on your nerves.

    But don't eat any of it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  6. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I wish there was a lube that magically removed all soot and fouling, but as LD observes there ain't. But it does help soften the crud, and of course it helps on loading.
     
  7. Fingers McGee

    Fingers McGee Member

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    I use Ox yoke prelubed patches thet have been marinated in Hoppes #9 plus BP Solvent. Put about 50 patches in an old cap tin with about 1/2 to 1 tsp of the Hoppes and let them marinate overnight so all the liquid has been absorbed by the patches. Even the tightest ball/patch combination will slip down the barrel and swab the bore as you load. It's not unusual for my Pedersoli Tryon rifle to shoot 100 rounds over two days with no degradation of accuracy or cleaning required.

    FM
     
  8. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Wait, so you mix the modern solvent with the BP solvent? INTERESTING! This sounds like something I need to try, especially with the reported results. Thanks. :D

    LD
     
  9. Pancho

    Pancho Member

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    Fingers can you tell us what "bp solvent" you are using #9?
     
  10. Pancho

    Pancho Member

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    Have you ever run out of spit? I knew a guy who would and he'd take cut up lemons to events to suck on occasionally to make sure he had enough spit........go figure.
     
  11. batteran

    batteran Member

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    My magical lube (i use for bullet and gun, round or conical, with or without grease grooves, paper sharps or chipolatas):

    33% grapeseed oil
    66% candle wax

    OK, any (vegetable) oil and beeswax will work, I think.

    About the questions:

    Main problems: leading, very difficult cleaning, shotgun pattern accuracy.

    All lubes work, some better than others. But lube choice is critical in BP shooting (if you need accuracy and pleasure to shoot ^^)

    Liberally, in fact, too much lube isn't a real problem. (just the hole in your wallet ^^)

    The "patched bullet" shooters I know only lube the side of patch that touch the bore. I think it make sense. They use almost liquid lubes (more oil in the lube)
     
  12. Fingers McGee

    Fingers McGee Member

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    No, I do not use "Hoppes #9" nitro solvent. I use "Hoppes #9 Plus" blackpowder solvent and patch lube. Have been using it for over 20 years with BP firearms. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=815817 #9 and #9 Plus are two totally different animals.
     
  13. mr16ga

    mr16ga Member

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    I have used Number 9+ and bore butter both for patch lube both seem to work about the same for patch lube. I think the mink oil would work as well. Just make sure the patch is saturated with what ever you use. I use the Number 9+ at the range and bore butter in the field because it is a little less mess to reload. I have never used any type of oil for patch lube for fear of powder contamination with the oil if the charge sat any about of time. I suppose you could use some sort of nitro card above the powder and below the oily patch and get away with it.
     
  14. BigG

    BigG Member

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    Use the tube type lube and put in on the outside of the patch. The spit on the patch also works but who wants to put the patch in their mouth every time you are getting ready. Just for lack of something else but I prefer the patch lube.
     
  15. Kitchen_Duty

    Kitchen_Duty Member

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    Well i have several lubes to choose from I forgot I bought some bore butter also. So i'll probably try that out as well. Thanks for all the input gents.
     
  16. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

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    Don't forget the Teflon coated patching.
     
  17. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    The local black powder team surprised me by suggesting using BP solvent as a "patch lube". These guys and gals do a BP trail walk where they alternately shoot and throw "bowies" and tomahawks at targets as appropriate as they walk the trail that goes around the range grounds. And yes the rest of the range is closed and posted so the BP crowd isn't bothered by pesky lead flying by their heads while on the downrange part of the trail... :D

    Seems that using BP solvent or some similar stuff that we normally would consider as cleaner keeps the bores clean and they can go the 15 to 20 shots (I haven't been out to one of these trail outings yet) needed for the course without patching the bores the whole time.

    I've made up some Ballistol "moose milk" to try out for this same idea. Start the ball into the end and then put a couple of drops on the exposed patch edges to act as a lube and self cleaner. I'm hoping that this avoids the crud buildup that I had on my first outing.
     
  18. Nappers

    Nappers Member

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    I use 3 Rivers Lube/Solvent that I buy from The Gun Works over heree on the west coast. I soak the patches in a container and take them from that when I go on the trail when I go to rendezvous'. I leave a tick more (not floating) and use a cleaning patch as I walk back to camp to give a quick cleaning of the stock, nipple area etc prior to a full cleaning. Works and the stuff is cheap, 5 bucks for a 32oz bottle and I pack around a 2oz bottle which is hardly used, a 32oz bottle goes a long ways.

    When I clean the gun, I use Murphys oil, hydrogen peroxide and water in equal parts, soak the nipple in the cap with the solution (shake it up) and clean the gun, barrel off in a bucket and hydro clean with a mild soap solution of water and dish soap, dry and oil.

    Peroxide and murphys oil is cheap and I use an old peroxide bottle to carry in my box and a little goes a long ways, got my cleaning down to 5 patches and cut my own patches, cleaning and shooting.
     
  19. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

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    Man, That's just about a guarantee for a ruined gun. Sooner or later.
     
  20. david58

    david58 Member

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    I use a spit patch for virtually all target shooting - I tend more primitive and am not a precision paper puncher any more. But if I use a loading block, I have to grease the patches.

    I have found that bore butter can work well for hunting patches, as will vaseline. Neither will wet the powder. Tallow works well, too, as will basically anything that will help you get the patched ball down the barrel. It'll come out just fine after you pull the trigger, but a nice slick sloppy lube to help you ram the ball home is important.

    As for cleaning, the Murphy Soap and Peroxide is popular, but keep in mind that once you mix it together, the peroxide will only stay peroxide for a short time. But I do carry peroxide in my shooting box, as it makes a super hand cleaner to get rid of the muck that we get from shooting bp.

    My best cleaning solvent has been to use windshield washer fluid, the kind with methyl alcohol in it. If I am caught in a more high-falutin' shooting match than a trailwalk, I might use it to wipe between shots, too. Evaporates pretty quick, and does a good job cleaning.
     
  21. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    Kwhi43', how so?
     
  22. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    [email protected] Member

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    You do NOT want to put peroxide in your rifle barrel.
     
  23. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    I searched "peroxide" and found that many folks on this forum have posted about cleaning with a solution of 1 part peroxide, 1 part Murphy's oil soap and 1 part rubbing alcohol. They've all basically said that it works very well, especially on stubborn fouling and to apply oil afterward.
    One person said that it works well for cleaning brass and cartridge cases.
    I found two posts warning against using it, one claiming that peroxide can etch metal and another saying that the oxygen in peroxide can promote rust.
    Maybe the safe use of this formula has to do with its percentage of peroxide or how long it's in contact with the metal.
    But there was mention of a website where this formula was posted as being a black powder solvent commonly used by reenactors.
    The same source also mentions another formula with less peroxide in it:


     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011
  24. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    Just plain water works. Very well.
     
  25. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

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    peroxide will go where water won't. It will go past the threads in your breach
    plug and rust them. No way to get it out. Over a period of time the threads
    will get weaker and weaker. You won't even see the damage. You will notice
    that the beach plug will start to leak a little gas. Sometimes just a black spot
    that you will wipe away. It will get worse. You all go right ahead and put all
    the peroxide down your barrels you want. I don't want to be around when
    you fire the gun. Just remember.
     
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