Humorous thread on US Army ammo contract

[Phaedrus/69]

Okay, not the entire article- a bland report of Winchester winning the contract for 9mm ammo for the Army. I just thought this part was funny:

With the FBI and Department of Defense leaning in hard on 9mm (as well as the myth of “stopping power” having been put to rest), antiquated cartridges such as .45 ACP and dated interim rounds such as .40 S&W may be seeing the sunset on the horizon- at least in terms of duty application.

The .45 ACP is "antiquated" and the .40 is "dated"...what does that make the 9mm Parabellum which is older than both?

 

[rpenmanparker]

Okay, not the entire article- a bland report of Winchester winning the contract for 9mm ammo for the Army. I just thought this part was funny:

With the FBI and Department of Defense leaning in hard on 9mm (as well as the myth of “stopping power” having been put to rest), antiquated cartridges such as .45 ACP and dated interim rounds such as .40 S&W may be seeing the sunset on the horizon- at least in terms of duty application.

The .45 ACP is "antiquated" and the .40 is "dated"...what does that make the 9mm Parabellum which is older than both?

Vibrant, current, up-to-date...

 

[Iggy]

9mm is like 45 on stun.

 

[Tommygunn]

9mm is like 45 on stun.

Ha-ha-ha.

Seriously, with modern bullet design, both make very viable, competent handgun rounds. I have semis in both calibers.

 

[Walkalong]

what does that make the 9mm Parabellum

The current favorite.

 

[22250Rem]

The 9mm and the 45 ACP are both old enough to be called "antiquated" even though they are still in general, widespread use. Although today the 9mm is used a lot more by various military forces besides our own and gets very widespread use in the field of law enforcement. Perhaps the author of that piece feels that the 45 ACP is indeed nearing the end of its service life after over a century of excellent service. Just calling something antiquated isn't always derogatory. The .30-06 is antiquated also but they are both excellent cartridges.

 

[Stope Rat]

Well, my antiquated .45 makes a hole that is 63% larger than that antediluvian 9mm.

If you had seen me shoot, you would know that a larger hole is important, because it means that more of my shots that are right at the edge of the scoring ring get counted.

 

[Jim Watson]

Seriously, with modern bullet design, both make very viable, competent handgun rounds. .

The Army doesn't have the option of "modern bullet design."

 

[harrygunner]

That was bad. However, after that, the author partially redeemed himself

The real question, however, remains to be seen: when is the world going to fall in love with 10mm again?

Probably never, but we can dream.

The world is already in love with the 10mm.

 

[Tommygunn]

The Army doesn't have the option of "modern bullet design."

Generally true, but I believe special forces can use special ammo.


My comment was really aimed at the ".45 vs. 9mm." debate.

 

[sequins]

45 will kill em dead right there in one round. It's like a semi truck. 9mm is just puny in comparison

 

[lightman]

I think their logic concerning history has a flaw in it!

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

The bigger the bullet diameter the closer I miss...

 

[danez71]

9mm is like 45 on stun.

That's some funny stuff right there.....
.......and I favor 9mm over .45.

Good one.

 

[Buzznrose]

Lots of funny posts, but does anyone really.....logically......think that the .45 should make a comeback as a duty caliber? In today’s combat and law enforcement environment?

Ballistically similar, neither the .40 nor .45 offers much advantage on human targets, if any, over the 9MM. It is easier to carry more rounds, easier to handle, easier to shoot.

The fact that the Marines ditched that Colt 1911 in about 2 hot minutes should tell you something...tells me that even our most traditional and history loving military forces realize in a combat situation, more bullets means you last longer in a gunfight. More bullets = more better.

Ask a cop, armed with a .45 ACP, who survived a helluva gunfight with a single bad guy, whathes carrying now?

Spoiler.....more rounds,

https://www.policeone.com/patrol-is...ne-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

I’m no hater of the .40 or .45, I own guns and ammo of both calibers. Love shooting my .4’s, but as with the 5.56 in the rifle, it simply makes sense logistically.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

what does that make the 9mm Parabellum

Itty bitty and ancient.

But highly concealable!

This is a funny thread.

 

[Ignition Override]

If police, special operations units and the many various military units around the world had ordered a large majority of their Sigs in .22LR, I still would have bought a few of these P series German Sigs. In .22LR.

But German-proofed P228 AND P6 Sigs I've wanted--and bought-- happen to be in 9mm, as with my CZ-75 D 'PCR'. Maybe this chambering is ok...…..
The extremely simple conclusion is that 9mm became my primary carry gun chambering, because that's how most of those guns were designed and I wanted what They used, whether still their issue guns or not. Also have a .380 Russian Makarov.

The gradual stampede away from .40 S&W has become--what--a case of fear of non-conformity, or just mass anxiety when seeing falling values for used .40 guns ("I won't be able to sell my old gun !")?

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I carry a 9mm so I am not bashing it at all. It's just humorous to call out the .45 ACP as ancient when the 9mm is older still.

 

[Old Dog]

The Army doesn't have the option of "modern bullet design."

Yep, they sure do now … JHPs have been authorized for military use, the M1153 JHP is a 147-grain load contracted to Olin/Winchester.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Lots of funny posts, but does anyone really.....logically......think that the .45 should make a comeback as a duty caliber? In today’s combat and law enforcement environment?

Ballistically similar, neither the .40 nor .45 offers much advantage on human targets, if any, over the 9MM. It is easier to carry more rounds, easier to handle, easier to shoot.

The fact that the Marines ditched that Colt 1911 in about 2 hot minutes should tell you something...tells me that even our most traditional and history loving military forces realize in a combat situation, more bullets means you last longer in a gunfight. More bullets = more better.

Ask a cop, armed with a .45 ACP, who survived a helluva gunfight with a single bad guy, whathes carrying now?

Spoiler.....more rounds,

https://www.policeone.com/patrol-is...ne-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

I’m no hater of the .40 or .45, I own guns and ammo of both calibers. Love shooting my .4’s, but as with the 5.56 in the rifle, it simply makes sense logistically.

There is no reason whatsoever that a 1911 duty pistol could not be configured to carry 16-18 rounds. Several if not many examples exist. When I say 1911, I mean the operating systems for loading, ejecting and firing. And no reason the frame could not be polymer. Switching to double-stack, poly, striker-fired pistols was not about capacity or weight. It was about lower complexity and cost as well as avoidance of the “condition 1” phobia.

 

[JONWILL]

I have never shot a human or into a gel block

I have shot groundhogs with both calibers
These are the big fat soybean and corn fed ones
My experience. FMJ in either is not effective. Unless it is a head shot most made it back to their hole
I used Black Talon in both. With a good body shot they didn’t go far.
With the proper bullet they are equal IMHO

 

[bearcreek]

Well, my antiquated .45 makes a hole that is 63% larger than that antediluvian 9mm.

Not to nitpick, but, better check your math again. .45 is 37% larger, not 63%. (unexpanded, of course).

 

[rpenmanparker]

Not to nitpick, but, better check your math again. .45 is 37% larger, not 63%. (unexpanded, of course).

Maybe exit hole????

 

[bearcreek]

Maybe exit hole????

I strongly suspect that he just got his numbers switched or just phrased his statement wrong. 9mm is 63% of the diameter of .45, not 63% smaller.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I strongly suspect that he just got his numbers switched or just phrased his statement wrong. 9mm is 63% of the diameter of .45, not 63% smaller.

Actually none of that is correct. The .45 ACP bullet is 27% larger (0.451/0.356=1.266) than the 9 mm bullet. The 9 mm bullet is 21% smaller than the .45 ACP (0.356/0.451=0.789). There are no 63%ages involved in the unexpanded bullet comparisons either way. Let's not quibble over a thousandth here or there. I'm just doing this off the top of my head. Actually you don't even have to calculate to get into the ballpark. Every common caliber from .32 to .50 is roughly 10% larger than the one below it. .32, .356 or 9mm, .40 or 10mm, .45, .50. Steps of approximately 10%. It is a little more compact below .32.