Hybrid (ie Wilde) chamber or .223? cost vs. benefit questions?

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Samurai FI

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I want to be sure.

I am going to purchase a AR bull barrel, free float, upper 16 - 20 inch. I have 3 great brand choices. The Bushmaster and Rock River Arms uppers both have hybrid uppers5.56/.223, while dpms is just .223. Both the Bushy and RRA Cost $600. The dpms upper is $470.

I also compared ammo prices at at CTD and Midway and locally. Cheaper remington .223 (wolf .223 even cheaper, not that i would use it regularly)is about 32 cents a round and surplus 5.56 is 58 cents a round.

Would you agree that I should save some cash and have a better chance of improved accuracy by getting the dpms upper? Or is there a better reason to spend a considerable more amount on an upper with a hybrid chamber?

Thanks for your opinions on this topic.

p.s. I've read the ammo-oracle link and others.
 
I'd get the 5.56 if you are going to shoot steel case. If you shoot exclusively brass and a tiny bit of steel then I'd get Wilde chamber.

DPMS might say it's a .223 chamber, but I would have no regrets putting 5.56 into it. A company would be crazy to sell a budget military copy that can't take surplus.

I honestly don't think it matters much with AR-15s, as long as it isn't a .223 match barrel.
 
If you are a good enough shooter to appreciate the accuracy difference between a hybrid/Wylde chamber and a DPMS .223 chamber, then you are a much, much better shooter than I.

I suspect you will see zero difference in accuracy; but you will see reduced reliability with the .223 chamber using 5.56 ammo or steel-cased Russian stuff. ARs are already sensitive to gas pressure changes; .223 chambers just exacerbate that problem.
 
http://njhighpower.com/cart_tech.htm


Some info on various chambers.


No autoloader has a true .223 chamber. In fact, I don't think any bolt actions do any longer. Manufacturers will NEVER produce something that can explode using any factory ammunition, even if it be NATO milsurp, that you can buy and put into their rifle. Being that there's up to 80gr ammo out there, most leades are long. The guys at Savageshooters forum measured the leade on their .223 bolt actions, and it was longer than that of a Krieger barrel made for AR-15 rifles. And those Highpower guys that use Kriegers fire some ridiculously hot loads with heavy bullets. While there are warnings, and you should follow them - the safety margin has been built in already. They aren't going to leave it up to you. But don't test it either. :)


It isn't all about the freebore and the leade. There is also the throat (which is the width in that area). If that is tightened up, accuracy can increase quite a bit since the case/bullet will seat more concentrically. The fellow at AR15barrels.com tightens up the throat. Here's more info:
http://www.ar15barrels.com/forming.shtml


If you look at that link at the top of the post, the Krieger has the same freebore as the Bushmaster, but has a much more drastic leade. That is, the bullet is squeezed into the lands more rapidly. Due to being shorter. This makes the jump before being fully engaged in the rifling shorter. Thus more accurate since it will not get as out of line before the transition is complete. Kriegers are usually bought and used by people are are not newbies. Since to get any advantage out of such a match-grade barrel, you MUST use match-grade ammo. Most people handload, since match-grade ammo is very expensive. People who do all that demand more accuracy and aren't as likely to do something incredibly stupid (it happens though). So, these are pretty tight barrels for an autoloader for accuracy demands.


The more centered the bullet enters the bore, the less it will wobble in flight - the more accurate it will be. There are also other factors. Like distortion to the bullet etc.... Hard core benchrest guys make a huge fuss about their handloads, because their setups are so tight and precise, that how well centered the bullet is in the case makes a huge difference. If that is out of line, then it will negate the precision of the action and barrel.


I've found that the typical NATO chambered rifle, with decent ammo (like 75gr match) free floated, scoped, and decent trigger like an RRA 2-stage, will do around 1.25"-1.5" ..that's phenominal for a military pattern rifle with a regular barrel. Remember, in the world of guns, as you climb up the ladder of performance, the price doubles each rung. Want to shave .5" off those groups to have a 1moa or sub-moa rifle? Now you're going to pay 2.5x more for a barrel. No question about it. Standard rifle? 2-3moa. To get consistently under 2" usually around 1.5 to just under, spend on FF tube, match ammo, trigger ...want to get into the 1" ball park or under? Hundreds more on a super-match barrel....There are people who might say "what are you talking about, my off the shelf RRA will do sub-moa every day, even in the rain!" ...When I speak of accuracy, I'm referring to the rifle's ability to be able to do it CONSISTENTLY. None of this "group of the day/week/month" nonsense. Or 3-shot group stuff. 5-7shots or more, over and over. That's what a rifle can do. Shoot multiple 10shot groups, as slowly as you want, and you'll see that most of these 1moa rifles become 2moa rifles real fast.
 
The lighter, flat based, bullets will shoot tighter in close, to say 200 meters. Where the heavier, 69 to 75 grain bullets begin to shine is at longer distances, after they have gone to sleep. While the poster above had suggested 1.5" groups with the 75 grain bullets, with a Krieger barreled AR I was consistently getting sub MOA with 69 grain match kings at 300. Shot clean at 600 once using that rifle and 80 grain sierras, with a high X count. (I was lucky that day).

As far as chambers go, the short leade is helpful for accuracy, but load development can get you very close with a standard chamber, good quality bullets, and this: http://www.clik.to/optimalchargeweight

If you are shooting factory ammo, even "match" ammo, you will not likely realize the accuracy potential of ANY rifle you shoot.

This has been my experience, your mileage may differ.
 
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