Hypothetical Question!

[KFD147]

I got in a discussion about a range rules and safety. He asked the question that if you sign a waiver to abide by a private range rules, could you put in the waiver that if the range safety officer/ owner observes you commiting an extremly unsafe act he could "confinscate" (his words) your firearm. I at first stated BS, from my cold dead fingers. Then I started to think, what legal right does that range owner/officer have to take away any firearm, even if you signed a waiver that he could if you violated his safety rules? I am not lawyer and cannot think of anything to prove my point or his. Could those of you that have a little more knowledge chime in. Legal only no, I think therefore it is right.


Thanks
Jason

 

[Mike Irwin]

I'd have to say that they have absolutely no right to touch you OR your property.

They can ask you to leave, they can call the police to have you ejected, but taking your property? That's theft, pure and simple, in my mind.

 

[Sharpie1]

I think that the only thing the management of the range/club could do is tell you to leave.

I'm no lawyer, but that seems logical to me.

TD

FYI: If someone were to come up to me and tell me they needed my gun(s), or tried to take them away, we would have a little problem.

 

[KFD147]

Okay throw in that the owner of the range just happens to be a police officer in the local city. I know that he can act if he observes a crime. But since you signed the range rules agreement, would that still hold up in court?



Jason

 

[Stinger]

Theft is theft, whether it is a police officer, or a commoner.

They cannot confiscate your property.

Stinger

 

[Justin]

If it's written in a contract, and you sign it, then yes he could legally take your firearm. By signing that legal document, you are giving your consent to abide by the requirements of the document.

Don't like it?
Then you have two choices:
1) Modify the document yourself, sign it, and return it. If they sign it they must abide by the modified terms.

or

2)Don't sign the document.

That's the point of a contract. It's a document that sets forth the terms by which all parties involved will abide.

 

[illuminatus99]

I agree with justin, you are bound to what you sign as long as it is legal (a contract that requires that you violate a law in order to fulfill it is null and void), if you don't like a contract then don't sign it.

 

[DigitalWarrior]

Contracts are worthless

Back in the day a contract meant something because it was a man's word, and a man was expected to be responsible for his actions (signing it). Now we have Sports Players and performers "re-negotiating" their contracts.

I think that you might be able to win a court case in regards to that, but I think that you would be morally reprehensible for backing out on your word.

"I swear to uphold the constitution of the United States..." is a verbal contract that is too often ignored in the same manner.

 

[spacemanspiff]

okay, so you sign the contract and the range officer decides he likes your guns and would like to add them to his collection. whats to prevent him from lying about your behavior and trying to take them from you? its your word against his, right?

i say forget that range and send a letter to the editor of the local paper about his policy. inform the public so that he will not have the customer base. eventually he'll have to change his policies to stay in business.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Even if he took it from you at gunpoint, and you had signed its still robberey.

Never sign anything that stupid.

 

[Edward429451]

Nothing could stop him from lieing about it if its his place and if you signed the contract. Who's the LEO going to beleive, the shop owner or customer?

Pretty far fetched to think anyone would do that but you never know, I'm sure its happened somewhere.

So be careful what you sign. And if you sign anything before reading it completely, you're an idiot. Its the fine print that always gets you.

 

[Feanaro]

So far as I know(I am not a legal genius) if you signed it, you gave your legal consent and he can take it.

 

[Stinger]

It's not a legally binding contract. Period.

If the cops happened to show up to mediate the dispute, they would tell you to leave, and to take your weapons with you. He could possibly press charges against you for trespassing. But the guns would still be yours.

Stinger

 

[Art Eatman]

Okay, so you signed the contract. The range owner at some point requests you give him the rifle. You refuse.

What does he do then? Use force? His rights under the contract are a civil matter, not criminal. Build your own scenario.

Regardless of the probability of your winning out should it all go to civil court, it's a hassle you don't need. Don't ever sign anything other than a simple agreement to abide by the rules.

Art

 

[BlkHawk73]

Here's my take...

First if you signed, a written agreement accurred and I believe that would have some binding power. Anyways... the owner would be able to keep the confiscated firearm. that in any jurisdiction would constitute theft. I believe he would be able to retain the firearm until you were no longer on the property. He has the legal responsibility of keeping the property and other person safe. Any reputable range club or private should have any documnets of this nature written or reviewed by an attorney beforehand.

If indeed an act were to occur, it may also be an illegal act. Since the act would be involving the use a firearm, it may likely be a felonious act. Right there - you lose big!

If another patron (other than yourself0 committs act is indeed unsafe wouldn't you want the person to not have the gun in his possession?

 

[sinecure]

I think the "intent to permanently deprive" you of your gun should be factored-in here, especially when you are talking of "theft/robbery."

Obviously, if you persist in acting in a dangerous manner at the range after being warned, it doesn't seem too far off the beam for the person in charge of the range to temproarily take custody of your gun and escort you to the door. How he decides to return your weaponry to you is a dicey problem he must solve.

Since the range management is ultimately responsible for the safety of all patrons, it only makes sense. I can think of no other situation that would require the temporary confiscation of a range patron's firearm.

One of the first two questions I would ask anybody requiring me to sign something giving them permission to seize my gun would be "Has this ever been done?" and "Under what circumstances?"

 

[resmeth]

The point is that the contract specifies taking your property from you. This is theft.
Any contract that specifies (or infers) an illegal act is null and void. If I write up a contract to have some cars stolen but I don't pay the thief he can't take me to court for breach of contract.
Sounds like this gun club is a bit silly with its rules, I would question if it is worth associating with these people.

 

[KFD147]

Guy's thanks for the feedback. This question was raised by a friend of mine and he seemed to think that if you signed an agreement to use the range and this was part of the agreement that it was legal to confiscate your firearms if there were an unsafe act witnessed. (By the way this guy graduated from Texas A&M if that tells you anything) I based my question on a local range that I go to that the owner is a LEO. THIS RANGE DOES NOT ACTUALLY CONFISCATE YOUR FIREARM AND I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY THAT DO. But people get stranger all the time.



Thanks
Jason