I am looking to get a black powder rifle

[red rick]

I am looking to get a black powder rifle next year for deer hunting. I have looked at the Encore, Triumph, Omega, Traditions and Knight. I don't like the grip angle on the Encore. Educate me a little bit on them, I have seen the commercials about in-lines, removable breech plugs, and easy to clean features. What should I look for and WHY.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Look for everything you just said....

 

[scrat]

Ford VS Chevy VS Dodge. as far as quality they are pretty much all going for the peak right now. check the web sites of each major manufacture i know CVA has a bunch of videos on their products. you can hear a lot from us. at one point in time i think it was easy for someone to say buy this one as there were a small supply of them. Now seems like everytime you turn around you find a new one. check the features and benifits of each. I have a CVA Buckhorn. Its a very good shooter excellent but its an old style now. looking at it now id love to have one with a break down barrel. One of those with the interchanging barrels seems like a sweet deal.

 

[josh...just josh]

I have a traditions pursuit xlt that I have had for a few years that I really like. It's a break action inline and I believe that the barrels are made by the same company that makes CVA's barrels. I got it for really cheap from Cabellas. Don't listen to what some people will tell you about CVA/ Traditions, they do make some nice guns. I have a Thompson Center Hawken too and it's a nicer gun, but it hasn't made my pursuit obsolete either. One great thing about the break action of the Traditions is that it is very easy to clean; just take the breech plug out, take the one screw out of the fore grip, and soak the barrel in a bathtub filled with hot water and dish soap.

 

[scrat]

Yep only advice i can give you is get a break down. in a way it really dosent matter to me. The gun i wanted you can find anymore. NEF New England Firearms. was making break down black powder guns. i was thinking about getting a black powder breakdown from them as i have a 12guage NEF Pardner and a 410 pardner from them. that company had been making breakdowns almost longer than anyone. Well they either got bought out or something now i think they are pretty hard to find now. and if you find them the prices have risen

 

[ontarget]

I'm not as knowledgable as some of the guys here, but I do own both inline and traditional styles. I can say my NEF inline is a good shooter but she is a little picky about the load, as are most ML's from my experience. My traditional is also a very good shooter but not always as reliable as inline also not magnum rated. Either way it is a blast to shoot 'em. You could go either way with no regrets, but there seems to be a much larger selection of inlines these days. Oh do you plan on using a scope? If so go inline.

 

[robhof]

I just got my 1st b/p deer this year with with a Thompson sidelock that worked well out to the ranged deer at 126yds. Inlines are fine, but don't pass on a good traditional, with practice, they'll do anything the inlines can.

 

[arcticap]

I don't like the grip angle on the Encore.

I think that you're selecting a rifle the right way by shouldering the gun and getting a feel for its ergonomics.
All of the bells and whistles won't necessarily help a person to shoot a rifle any better off hand, or to make it easier to carry it around in the woods, or to enable it to be faster handling or to shoulder when the opportunity arises to take a game animal in the field.

Sure the materials, warranty and design features matter to some, but they're secondary to how well any person can shoot a gun when it's called upon to perform.
Any modern inline will function and shoot pretty good. From there it's mostly a matter of cost and ergonomics.
I suggest that you make a list of the guns and specific features that interest you the most.
Most models have reviews about those features and how they work that can be found by doing a simple Google search.
Just try to remember that every model has some advantages and disadvantages.
And the advice that anyone offers can be biased and subjective.
So features that I think might not be important may be significant to you and vice versa.
I think that it's good to ask specific questions about those features and models. But there's just so many features, materials and design differences that it's difficult to try to begin to explain & compare them all.
If you'd like a stainless steel receiver and Bergara barrel then check out the CVA Accura.
If you'd prefer a Hogue stock and a finger removable breechplug or porting then check out the Traditions Vortek.
If you want the best lifetime warranty and an extremely accurate out of the box American product then check out any Thompson Center.
But in the end it still mostly boils down to the gun's cost, comfort and shootability for its intended purpose i.e - longer open spaces or shorter wooded ranges, faster or slower handling, lighter or heavier to carry.

I don't know what really matters, I only know what does & doesn't matter to me.
Whether it's a little faster, slower or easier to clean doesn't really matter to me.
In other words, it's your wallet and your preferences that you're willing to pay for.
What I think that really matters most is how well you're able to shoot it and
whether it meets your expectations or not for the amount of money spent.

 

[red rick]

I am looking to spend no more than $600, fit is the most important thing, that's why I have ruled out the Encore. I would like it to be dependable when I pull the trigger, easy to use and clean and synthetic stock. I was thinking stainless steel for durability, but I could be talked into one with a alloy receiver. I just don't think it would hold up as well. Weight doesn't matter much, I am not walking far to a stand and most of my shots will be in the woods less than 75 yards.

 

[1/509 ABCT 12B]

I have been shooting BP muzzle loaders since 1988. I do mountain man rendezvous so I prefer Traditional styles, I dislike inline BP. I am having a custom hand built flintlock made for me in .40, in the style of Jacob Dickert.

 

[BHP FAN]

I like the old Leonard Day swivel barrel rifles myself, but I believe this fellow is looking for a modern hunting iron.

 

[Wildfire]

Encore.

Hey There:
I am an Encore shooter. No one likes the looks of them. Shoot one.
A good one. I have had mine now for somewhere around 9 or 10 years.

Not sure .
It will shoot .. All holes touch at 100 yards. I have lost count on how many deer I have killed with this rifle. 80 Grains of Pyrodex "P" and a Barnes MZ expander w/ Rem 209 ML primer . Blued barrel.

The cost you see out there is terrible. Their is a place very close to me that sells these for in the range of $450 to $500.00 class. The opthers are making big money on them.

My scope is a 3200 Elite $229.00 But I have now seen them much less.
I also use a long Harris Bi-Pod. It seems I can not miss with this thing. It drops every deer it is aimed at.

It also converts to many other calibers.

 

[Smilin Jack]

Red Rick wants rifle

Red Rick, when my son lived in Virginia, he was required to hunt with a flintlock. Is that still the case?

I hunt deer here in Oregon with my Lyman Great Plains in 50 cal caplock. It shoots great and is a very good shooter. Would recommend it for a first gun.

Round balls work best in the Lyman Great Plains, but it will shoot 350gr Maxi-hunter slugs but shoots left about 16" with the slug. That requires a big sight adjust... so have put on a peep sight for the slugs and take it off to use the buckhorn iron sight for roundball at mountain man rondesvous and target shooting.

My Navy Arms Hawkin Hunter is a 58 cal caplock. It uses a Lyman 577611 minnie ball. Got a 3x3 buck this year during November deer/elk hunt in western Oregon. My partner got a spike buck with his homemade 54 caplock rifle.

On our October deer hunt, no deer, but John got a nice grouse with his 20 ga flintlock. He was proud of that shot. We cooked it on the BBQ. John builds his own rifles by shopping for barrels, locks etc at a black powder store in Springfield, OR. They have a nice website. http://www.thegunworks.com/GunIndex.cfm?next=where

 

[Jefferson Herb]

1st ml

Check laws on type of rifles that can be used in the areas you want to hunt.Some of the western states now req external locks[no modern inlines],no scopes or fiber optic sights,loose powder ,no sabots;for muzzleloading hunts.That does'nt include regular rifle season to my knowledge.
I use a tc hawkin w green mountain barrel 1-28 twist,w maxi balls.100gr ffg cronos at 1250 w 370 mb,and tang sight w sight settings out to 300 yds;not for hunting but it's nice to know.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

Things to consider

I shoot both inlines and sidelock percussion and love 'em both. The inlines are all the older TC versions with the plunger striker and the one-piece stock that looks like it belongs on a bolt gun. They can still be found on Gunbroker for quite reasonable prices.

The sidelocks are TC and Lyman Great Plains. One of the TCs is a Hawken set up with a .54 Green Mountain slow twist barrel. It shoots patched round ball like a dream. It's taken 3 deer. Don't let anyone tell you that the PRB is not an efficient killer. The numbers make it look wimpy, but a .54 PRB inside 100 yards is one of the best deer killers around.

The other sidelock TC I've taken deer with is a Greyhawk .50, which is a stainless version of the New Englander. It's faster twist and likes conicals...but it's not fast enough for sabots. It's not as dependably accurate as the PRB shooters, but it'll do the job in fine style inside 75 yards. At 100 yards, accuracy is a little iffy. Nicest things about the Greyhawk are that it's a joy to carry and use in a blind and it's very easy to clean.

Lately I've been using a TC Firehawk .54. It shoots a 335 gr. .50 S&W bullet (JHP) inside a purple .54/.50 sabot. It does a fine job shooting this combination and has taken two deer. It's 4x scope makes things easier for my old eyes. I'd trust it out to 150 yards, though I normally never shoot that far at game.

The things I find important are:
1) Stainless makes for a much easier cleanup, obviously, but blued guns are fine. You just have to be a little more careful with them
2) Removable breech plugs aren't really needed or wanted. They seem to make for more cleanup work in the guns I have. You have to get all of the gunk out of those plug threads and then lube them so they don't seize on you. I actually find the traditional sidelocks to be the easiest to take down and clean...especially the Greyhawk. The Firehawk has a fixed breechplug and is a little tricky to clean, but not bad. It's less work than my inlines with removable breech plugs.
3) Cleanup of fouling aft of the nipple can be time consuming. Some inline designs make this difficult. The traditional sidelock is about the easiest I've found.
4) Heavy loads are counter productive. I always seem to find best hunting accuracy somewhere between 80 and 100 grains of loose Pyrodex.
5) Super powerful caps aren't needed with Pyrodex or real black powder and can degrade accuracy. I've tried musket caps and get better accuracy with #11s. I've settled on CCI #11 mag caps and never have ignition problems...unless I've done something stupid. I've not tried 209 ignition.
6) I've had much better luck shooting saboted .50 bullets in a .54 than I've had shooting saboted .44 or .45 bullets in a .50. Plus, those 300+ grain .50 pistol bullets pack more wallop. Older inlines were available in .54. I don't know of any current .54 inlines. You will need a twist of 1-in-38 or faster to make this work. Bore-size lead conicals (Maxi-balls, Maxi-Hunters, Great Plains) provide iffy accuracy in either .50 or .54 IMHO.
7) TC provides unbeatable support with their lifetime warranty. It applies to used guns as well as new. They'll even correct problems you've caused, if the basic gun has not been modified in some way. I short started and bulged a barrel; they replaced it free. Just be honest with them and admit a mistake.

Most of my MLs have come from the gun auction sites. It's possible to find about any model TC or Lyman has made either lightly used or even New-in-box for between $200 and $400 if you're patient. With your budget, there should be plenty of choices.
FWIW...and sorry this is so long-winded.
Bob

 

[Pancho]

Although I'm inclined toward sidelocks I have both inlines and sidelocks. I just tried a friends TC encore this past weekend and the trigger guard smacked my middle finger during recoil. After six rounds I gave up on it.
Take a look at the Lyman Mustang while you're looking at break down inlines.
The NEF/Rossi Handi Rifle is a low priced good shooting break down inline but the collapsing ramrod is a pain in the butt especially if you need a quick second shot.