Langenator
Member
I originally posted this on my blog (here), but I figured I'd cross post it here to get the opinion of the serious gun nuts who hang out here.
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One of the things those of use who carry a concealed firearm spend a good bit of thinking about is "If I'm caught up in Situation X, at what point do I draw and try to shoot the bad guy[s?" Gun forums like THR and TFL have sub-forums with many threads on the topic. Some of the most interesting discussions center on what to do if you're not directly threatened, like if you were in the local Stop-N-Rob when some mutant pulls a gun on the cashier.
With that in mind, some of you can probably imagine some of what was running through my mind while I watched Inside Man. What would I have done, or at what point would I have drawn and started firing, if I had been inside that bank? (The movie takes place in the victim disarmament and criminal empowerment zone of New York City, but for purposes of this discussion we'll assume I'm in a jurisdiction that still treats the people who live and work there as citizens rather than subjects.)
[WARNING-MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD]
Note: in all situations there are 4 bad guys, 3 with AKs and one, the leader, with a revolver.
The first point at which I might have considered drawing is when the robbery crew first pulled out their guns. Biggest advantage to the CCWing citizen here is that the robbers are mostly concentrating on the security guards as the most likely threat. Also, most of the people in the bank are screaming and trying to get as far away from the gunmen as possible, creating a good bit of distraction.
Disadvantage here is that during the initial stage of the takeover is when the gunmen are most alert, looking to establish their dominance, and keyed up to smack down any sigh of resistance.
Other considerations: to this point, the gunmen hadn't fired a shot, so establishing the 'imminent threat' might be a bit more difficult.
Tactics: draw, shoot the gunman most closely oriented in my direction and work through the progession from highest threat to lowest (based on proximity and orientation), two rounds in each target.
The second opportunity came when the bad guys collected all of the hostages keys and cell phones. At this point, in my mind it would have been obvious that they were doing everthing they could to eliminate any threats from the inside. Chances of my weapon being discovered have just gone way up, meaning my chances of getting shot for hiding it are going up with it.
The biggest advantage here is that one of the AK carrying gunman (woman, actually) had slung her weapon across her back so she could hold the bag that the phones were being put into. One other thing I noticed at this point: all of the AK carrying gunmen had the safeties engaged-and the AK safety isn't the quickest and easiest thing to disengage. Further, although the gunmen had moved the hostages into a fairly confined area, they were all at one end of the room, with the exception of the one collecting keys and phones. This makes target transition quicker and simplifies the background problem.
Disadvantage: The confined space. As soon as the gun comes out, the other hostages are going to panic, which means they will get very unpredictable, complicating both targeting and background.
Tactics: hold out my phone and keys like everyone else. When the collector gets to me, drop them in the bag, then step in and shove her to the ground. Draw and engage the other gunmen, starting with the leader-his revolver doesn't have a safety, and thus will be much quicker to bring into action than the AKs. Save the collector for last, and if I'm quick enough, I might not have to shoot her at all.
Final opportunity: when the gunmen told everyone to strip to their underwear. At this point, you've got two options-inform the gunmen that you're armed but don't want to shoot them, surrender your weapon and hope they don't shoot you, or draw and start firing.
Advantages: not a lot, except that now all of the gunmen are again at one end of the room, and the safeties were still engaged on the AKs.
Disadvantages: if I were a gunman, this is the point at which I would expect resistance from anyone who might have a CCW, because they'd know discovery was imminent. So they're going to be extra watchful.
Tactics: again, hit the leader first, because his revolver is going to be quicker to action than the AKs with the safeties on.
So those are my thoughts. Anyone else who's seen the movie have any thoughts?
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Unrelated, 'You might be a gun nut' thought: at one point, one of the gunmen charges his AK. The thought that immediately went through my head was, "That didn't sound right...it didn't sound like he chambered a round." And I was right...but I won't say exactly why.
----------
One of the things those of use who carry a concealed firearm spend a good bit of thinking about is "If I'm caught up in Situation X, at what point do I draw and try to shoot the bad guy[s?" Gun forums like THR and TFL have sub-forums with many threads on the topic. Some of the most interesting discussions center on what to do if you're not directly threatened, like if you were in the local Stop-N-Rob when some mutant pulls a gun on the cashier.
With that in mind, some of you can probably imagine some of what was running through my mind while I watched Inside Man. What would I have done, or at what point would I have drawn and started firing, if I had been inside that bank? (The movie takes place in the victim disarmament and criminal empowerment zone of New York City, but for purposes of this discussion we'll assume I'm in a jurisdiction that still treats the people who live and work there as citizens rather than subjects.)
[WARNING-MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD]
Note: in all situations there are 4 bad guys, 3 with AKs and one, the leader, with a revolver.
The first point at which I might have considered drawing is when the robbery crew first pulled out their guns. Biggest advantage to the CCWing citizen here is that the robbers are mostly concentrating on the security guards as the most likely threat. Also, most of the people in the bank are screaming and trying to get as far away from the gunmen as possible, creating a good bit of distraction.
Disadvantage here is that during the initial stage of the takeover is when the gunmen are most alert, looking to establish their dominance, and keyed up to smack down any sigh of resistance.
Other considerations: to this point, the gunmen hadn't fired a shot, so establishing the 'imminent threat' might be a bit more difficult.
Tactics: draw, shoot the gunman most closely oriented in my direction and work through the progession from highest threat to lowest (based on proximity and orientation), two rounds in each target.
The second opportunity came when the bad guys collected all of the hostages keys and cell phones. At this point, in my mind it would have been obvious that they were doing everthing they could to eliminate any threats from the inside. Chances of my weapon being discovered have just gone way up, meaning my chances of getting shot for hiding it are going up with it.
The biggest advantage here is that one of the AK carrying gunman (woman, actually) had slung her weapon across her back so she could hold the bag that the phones were being put into. One other thing I noticed at this point: all of the AK carrying gunmen had the safeties engaged-and the AK safety isn't the quickest and easiest thing to disengage. Further, although the gunmen had moved the hostages into a fairly confined area, they were all at one end of the room, with the exception of the one collecting keys and phones. This makes target transition quicker and simplifies the background problem.
Disadvantage: The confined space. As soon as the gun comes out, the other hostages are going to panic, which means they will get very unpredictable, complicating both targeting and background.
Tactics: hold out my phone and keys like everyone else. When the collector gets to me, drop them in the bag, then step in and shove her to the ground. Draw and engage the other gunmen, starting with the leader-his revolver doesn't have a safety, and thus will be much quicker to bring into action than the AKs. Save the collector for last, and if I'm quick enough, I might not have to shoot her at all.
Final opportunity: when the gunmen told everyone to strip to their underwear. At this point, you've got two options-inform the gunmen that you're armed but don't want to shoot them, surrender your weapon and hope they don't shoot you, or draw and start firing.
Advantages: not a lot, except that now all of the gunmen are again at one end of the room, and the safeties were still engaged on the AKs.
Disadvantages: if I were a gunman, this is the point at which I would expect resistance from anyone who might have a CCW, because they'd know discovery was imminent. So they're going to be extra watchful.
Tactics: again, hit the leader first, because his revolver is going to be quicker to action than the AKs with the safeties on.
So those are my thoughts. Anyone else who's seen the movie have any thoughts?
-----------
Unrelated, 'You might be a gun nut' thought: at one point, one of the gunmen charges his AK. The thought that immediately went through my head was, "That didn't sound right...it didn't sound like he chambered a round." And I was right...but I won't say exactly why.
