I know your not supposed to but does anyone handload their carry ammo.

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I do but I live in a gun friendly state where lawyers and prosecutors know better than to try to make an issue of such a thing. If I lived in a blue state I likely would not do so.
 
First time I've heard this. Why is it bad to handload self-defense ammo? Seems like it'd be the best thing to do... more reliability in the round, better consistency, etc. Why shouldn't you do it?
 
I do.

And yes, I've read several of Massad Ayoob's commentaries on the matter.

Before this gets heated, I will refer people to some excellent reading from Ayoob on the subject. I would highly suggest that one reads this THR post from him back from 2005. He did some great research to cite actual cases where handloaded ammo was even a factor. This really puts to rest several of the myths people subscribe to that cause them to end up fearful of using handloaded ammo, and replaces them with factual cases.

Whatever you choose to do, you should be able to support your decision and understand the pros and cons.
 
Really? That's a stretch. That's like saying obtaining a ccw shows premeditation.

Pretty sad day when a judge allows that bs.
 
Sigh!

[1] The legal issues regarding the use of handloads for self defense have been discussed extensively here. See:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=583690

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=540571

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=519459

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=504489

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=503695

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=434947

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=396040

[2] Just some high points --

  • Yes, a good shoot is a good shoot. But you won't be deciding if it was a good shoot. Other folks will. And if you're on trial, someone who matters didn't think it was a good shoot. Now it's not a good shoot unless the jury says so.

  • If you've been involved in a shooting in which you claim self defense and if, for some reason, gunshot residue (GSR) test results will be important to your defense, GSR test results will not be admissible into evidence if you used handloads. It won't matter how good your records may be. Thye are suspect, because they are yours. You will not be able to establish the necessary foundation for admission of GSR test results of your handloads because you will not be able to satisfactorily establish that the handloads tested were the same as the rounds fired in the incident.

  • It will be highly unlikely that any members of your jury will have any knowledge of or interest in guns or shooting. Your reasons for using handloads will strike them as too "inside baseball", and they will probably not be receptive to them.

  • If you're on trial in a shooting in which you're claiming self defense, you probably have a number of problems. Handloads can become one more thing that will need to be explained, one more "wild card." As a general rule in court, the less you have to explain, the better off you'll be. You won't have to explain handloads if you didn't use them and used factory ammunition instead.

  • There aren't cases on the issue because it's most likely that there are very few self defense incidents in which handloads have been used.

[3] All these points are discussed in greater detail and at greater length in the threads I've linked to.

[4] I practiced law for over 30 years before retiring a few years ago. I will not use handloads for self defense applications. My reasons are more fully discussed in the threads I've linked to.
 
fiddletown
There aren't cases on the issue because it's most likely that there are very few self defense incidents in which handloads have been used.
Click to expand...
This may or may not be true.

Soooo much speculation in this debate and sooo very few facts.
 
A perfect defense is all these "experts" advising to train with the load you carry (even law enforcment can back you up on that one). How else can a man of independent means AFFORD to keep proficient enough with a handgun and supply his own ammo UNLESS he loads his own? A necessarily high amount of ammunition is required to be a good shot AND reduce the liability of a shot gone wild. Loading one's own ammunition in these days of inflation, crime, and personal liability is only practical and logical.
 
I have more confidence in my reloads than I have in any factory ammo so of course, I use my reloads. BTW, the idea that some prosecutor or any other attorney is going use that as ammo against me in court is ridiculous. Fortunately I live in a state where criminals are still the bad guys.
 
Only three questions; How many rounds of self-defense ammo do expect to be using in the next quarter century? Now, how much will those self-defense rounds cost you? Pretty cheap insurance to just not take that legal added chance, isn't it?
 
Nope. I use factory stuff on the off chance that it might influence a decision in court.

It's incredibly unlikely that I'll ever be involved in a self-defense shooting outside my home, but if I am, I want to mitigate all the factors against my defense that I possibly can. Using my own hand loaded ammunition may be one of those factors.

I'm not saying it is or it is not, but that I'm removing it from the equation entirely.

KISS

Also, I have found that the ammunition I have selected for use is of very high quality and consistent in performance (CorBon DPX, Georgia Arms, Hornady, Remington Golden Saber, Remington SJHP, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester PDX1) and uses components that I would select, were I to roll my own.

Fifty cents to a dollar a round for ammunition that I might shoot 100-200 rounds a year of is not too much of a price to pay, IMO, to minimize potential difficulties in an unlikely scenario.
 
I carry Barnes XPB hollow points that I load to the same specs that Cor-Bon loads their DPX line in 357, they charge well over 2$ a round! I load them for less than a dollar. 1/3 the price! Factor in the fact that the experts recomend you shoot 200 rounds out of your given carry weapon to insure reliability and it adds up.
Now tell me that that is peanuts compared to what a lawyer charges!; fine, now show me a case in which someone in a SD shooting was charged because of handloads.

And I emphisize " In a self defense shooting"
 
now show me a case in which someone in a SD shooting was charged because of handloads.
And I emphisize " In a self defense shooting"
Click to expand...

The lack of data kind of cuts both ways. Just sayin' :rolleyes: (btw, I agree with you for the most part)
 
357 Terms said:
...This may or may not be true....
Click to expand...
You and I have already had at least some of this discussion in this thread. So instead of repeating it, anyone interested can have a look.

SharpsDressedMan said:
A perfect defense is all these "experts" advising to train with the load you carry (even law enforcment can back you up on that one)....
Click to expand...
Care to identify those "experts." The advice I'm familiar with is to train with ammunition that is ballistically comparable to what you carry. So handload the ballistic equivalent of you your favorite carry ammunition and train economically with that. But you should be able to afford factory ammunition for carry.

wvshooter said:
...Fortunately I live in a state where criminals are still the bad guys.
Click to expand...
The State you live in has nothing to do with it. Consider these self defense cases --

This couple, arrested in early April and finally exonerated under Missouri's Castle Doctrine in early June. And no doubt after incurring expenses for bail and a lawyer, as well as a couple of month's anxiety, before being cleared.

Larry Hickey, in gun friendly Arizona: He was arrested, spent 71 days in jail, went through two different trials ending in hung juries, was forced to move from his house, etc., before the DA decided it was a good shoot and dismissed the charges.

Mark Abshire in Oaklahoma: Despite defending himself against multiple attackers on his own lawn in a fairly gun-friendly state with a "Stand Your Ground" law, he was arrested, went to jail, charged, lost his job and his house, and spent two and a half years in the legal grinder before finally being acquitted.

Harold Fish, also in gun friendly Arizona: He was still convicted and sent to prison. He won his appeal, his conviction was overturned, and a new trial was ordered. The DA chose to dismiss the charges rather than retry Mr. Fish.

Gerald Ung: He was attacked by several men, and the attack was captured on video. He was nonetheless charged and brought to trial. He was ultimately acquitted.

Sometimes someone justifiably defending himself will get put through the wringer in even gun friendly States or States with favorable self defense laws. And in the Fish case, the prosecutor made effective use of the type of ammunition Fish used.

357 Terms said:
...Now tell me that that is peanuts compared to what a lawyer charges!; fine, now show me a case in which someone in a SD shooting was charged because of handloads...
Click to expand...
No one would get charged just because he used handloads. But sometimes people get charged, as noted above, for a variety of reasons. And handloads, if used, could become another issue that would need to be dealt with.

If you need to use your gun in self defense, will things get sorted out quickly and easily (as often happens), or will you wind up in a legal nightmare, like Larry Hickey, et al? You have no way of knowing; it will all depend on exactly what happens and how it happens. And if you have that sort of bad luck, you can figure on paying a lawyer $250 to $500 an hour, and expert witnesses and investigators $100 to $250 and hour.

Anyone is free to use whatever ammunition he wishes. It won't be my problem. However, I'll stick with quality factory ammunition.
 
The lack of data kind of cuts both ways.
Click to expand...

It doesn't "cut" in any direction.
So far there has never been a case of a "self defense" shooting where handloads were a factor in any prosecution.
The lack of data speaks volumes in regard to the fact that it isn't, nor has it ever been, an issue in a court of law.
Again; in a "self defense shooting"
 
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