ID this Mauser Action

[Samsonite]

I have a small ring mauser action that was sporterized in the 1950s. It is chambered in .243 win and is in desperate need of a new barrel. Any insight into what action this is? No crest on top as it is smooth but there are some proof marks on the bottom and sides. Receiver is 8.5" long. The bolt cocks when it closes. Any info is much appreciated!

 

[Jim Watson]

It is an 1893 Mauser action, the flat bottomed bolt head is distinctive.

From what I could Google, it is probably off a Spanish 1893 or 1916 refurbished in the 1930s. The thumb notch and oval gas hole were cut in that program and the Republican rifles had the crest ground off.

Somebody will be along shortly to tell you that .243 is awfully hot for a Spanish Mauser.
The new barrel should be for a milder round, back to the 7x57 or 6.5x55 or maybe a .257 Roberts.

 

[Samsonite]

Going off what you gave me it is indeed an 1893/1916. From what I've read the thumb notch and gas escape hole were added later when the Spanish government rebarreled the guns to 308 win. Is this a case where modern metallurgy says these actions aren't strong enough to handle these pressures even though everyone thought they could 75 years ago? I'm thinking the barrel manufactures think so because I havent been able to locate a small ring 243 win barrel for it. My cousin and I have shot many a deer with it and we kinda wanted to our kids to shoot their first deer with it. Can I switch out the action to a large ring 98 with only minor inletting changes to the stock?

 

[rcmodel]

The new barrel should be for a milder round, back to the 7x57 or 6.5x55 or maybe a .257 Roberts.

This would be a much simpler solution then trying to put a 98 action in a 93 stock.

we kinda wanted to our kids to shoot their first deer with it.

A barrel in a kinder gentler caliber would be the same rifle for your kids.

A 98 action with a new .243 barrel, cobbled together in the old stock wouldn't be.

rc

 

[Jim Watson]

There is a long thread on .308 in Spanish Mausers here at
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=632684
No real difference from a .243 Spanish Mauser.

A lot of people think it is ok because theirs hasn't blown up.
Slamfire says it is not ok because he has seen one blown up.

I kind of like the idea of .257 Roberts. It is a low pressure round but will do anything the .243 will and more besides.

 

[rcmodel]

There is now +P .257 Roberts being sold commercially though.

It was specifically +P rated after all those old 93 Mauser actions stopped being used so much for rebarreling to .257 Roberts years ago.

Nothing wrong with the 7x57 or 6.5x55 as a hunting caliber, and you assured no hot +P loads will get in it by mistake.

rc

 

[R.W.Dale]

300 sav or possibly 35 Remington would also be two excellent less thought of low pressure rounds well suited to a 93 action.

If you really wanna go outside the box 450 bushmaster

posted via tapatalk using android.

 

[Jim Watson]

There is now +P .257 Roberts being sold commercially though.

Well, there is that. It is higher pressure than .257 standard or 7x57 but lower than .243.

I guess I have missed out on all those Spanish Mausers in .257 Roberts.

The .257 Remington Roberts was never a wildcat and there was no more need to download it than a .270 that might get put into a low number Springfield.

 

[rcmodel]

It was very much a wildcat before it became a commercial cartrige in 1934.

Ned Roberts had been working to develop it for years, and lots of others built guns on 91/93 actions or Remington rolling-blocks before it became a commercial caliber.

rc

 

[Samsonite]

Yall don't need to sell me on a different caliber. My next rifle will be a 6.5X55. However this is my uncle's rifle and he is dead set on .243 win. I'm sure yall know about old men and their caliber choice being the best One thing I have noticed is there is some vertical play in the bolt when the trigger is pulled. Ive attached a video of the rear of the bolt when pressure is applied to the trigger. You cant see in the video, but the play in the bolt extends the length of the bolt all the way to the chamber. Could this be why the gun won't even shoot a 12" pattern? Is this something that is fixable or is this action junk?

I cant get the video to embed but if you click the picture it will bring up the video on photobucket.

 

[Jim Watson]

Disagree, rc.
The .25 (not .257) Roberts wildcat was not the same as what Remington commercialized as the .257. About the same relationship as the .240 PSP vs .243 Win.

As I understand it, Ned Roberts wanted a rimless round about the same capacity as the .25 Krag for use in bolt actions. He chose the 7x57 case but reset the shoulder angle and position and shortened the neck. Neidner chambered barrels for it.

There was even an intermediate version as chambered by Griffin & Howe with the Roberts shoulder but not shortened, largely to save on the labor of forming brass. They still called it the .25 Roberts.

When Remington brought out the .257 Remington Roberts in the strong Model 30 (1917 commercial, pretty much) they went back to the 7x57's shoulder and length.

So there was no backlog of weak action wildcat .257 Roberts and the .257 Remington Roberts would not work in one of the existing .25 Roberts rifles, so there was no need to spare the Spanish Mausers and Rolling Blocks. There weren't any.

Or I badly misunderstand Ken Waters' account of the development.

I have my own ideas about the .257 Roberts being lightly loaded relative to .30-06 and .270 in the same gun, but will worry about that for another post.


Sam, I don't think that slop in the bolt is responsible for poor accuracy. You said it is in desperate need of a new barrel, that is reason enough for poor accuracy. You should check to see if the locking lug abutments in the receiver are beat back, though.
I think finding somebody to put a .243 barrel on a pre-98 will be difficult because of liability worries over the 16% hotter cartridge.

 

[PRD1]

I recommend...

that you honorably retire the rifle.
My experience with the Spanish '93-type actions is that they are not suitable for rebarreling to any modern cartridge at all.
They are all soft (many years ago, I watched an old gunsmith squash one in simply tightening his action wrench onto it. When he noticed that the barrel shank wouldn't thread back into the action, and realized why, he simply took the receiver out of the wrench, laid it on his bench and smacked it with a big brass hammer until he could screw the barrel back in).
With pressures higher than about 40 KPSI (virtually all modern CF rifle cartridges), the locking lugs will set-back into their seats very quickly, increasing headspace until the bolt becomes hard to open and case heads separate. Several years ago, a customer (and friend) decided he'd like to make up a 7.62x39 rifle on just such a '93 Spanish action. I couldn't talk him out of it, so made and fitted a barrel for him. In shooting about 200 rounds of Wolf ammunition, it battered itself into just the state I described above.
Just my recommendation, but not based on hearsay.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike