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Ideal gun/carry mode for public transport?

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Andrew Wyatt

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I'm getting dangerously close to 21, and It's time for me to start thinking of what my first three CCW pieces will be.

I'm definitely going to carry a full sized GM at least part of the time (since it's what i have), but most of the time i'm out and about i'm either at college or on the bus.


as you may or may not be aware, public transport brings its own problems with concealed carry, since people are in close quarters and you'll end up with someone sitting on your gun if you're not careful.


I've a five inch conduit barrel model 10 in .38 that my father will let me use, as well as an officers model sized 1911 chop job.

I have a backpack with me 100% of the time, and i'm thinking that would be preferable to on body carry for the bus.

For off body carry, a revolver would be preferable, right?


what do you guys think?
 
First. Carrying a pistol on a bus is illegal per Federal law. Also, most, if not all states have laws making it illegal to carry a weapon on a public conveyance. It is also illegal to bring a pistol onto any school grounds, per Federal law. We just had some goof get busted big time while he was on the grounds of Arizona State University for this, not to long ago.
Therefore, I cannot give you any advice on this matter!!! :rolleyes:
 
since you are in CA, and i'm in CA and go to school, it's illegal to bring firearms to school! (any schools: private, public, from kindergarten to UC/CSU!)
like WebHobbit said, get a car first. as for CCW, good luck with that.
 
denfoote,

Could you please provide specific statute numbers for the Federal laws that make carrying a firearm on a municipal mass transit bus illegal? I'm a former police officer and have never heard of them. I also used to work mass transit security here in Oregon. Some of the transit district have ordinances regarding firearms that are unenforceable because they have been superseded by state law. It has always been my understanding that Federal law is silent on the subject but I could be mistaken.

I'm also unfamiliar with the Federal law having to do with schools but that is an area I am not as familiar with.

Regards,
David
 
California has NO ban on college/university carry if you have a CCW permit - and he's in an area where CCW access isn't too bad.

As to the bus thing...howinhell would the Feds have jurisdiction over a LOCAL bus system? Greyhound or similar I can understand. If somebody has CCW and carries on a local bus system, you'll almost certainly be fine as long as the circumstances in which the gun became known are OK.

As to the original question:

My opinion: you want a 38snubbie. Bigtime. Stuff happens at CLOSE range on public transit, at close range the "lowly" snubbie dominates. Very concealable, can't go out of battery with muzzle contact, hard to grab away from you, adequate power without over-penetration in a seriously "bystander dense" situation.

You need to CAREFULLY pick ammo. Few hollowpoints will reliably expand from a 2" 38, but some will. The Winchester 130grain Supreme 38+P is a good one, or the 158grain +P lead hollowpoints by Winchester or Remington (slight pref. for the latter if available, but the difference is modest).
 
A Tangent: Off Body Carry

Without going into the legalities of carrying on a bus like you describe...

I'm not a fan of off-body carry, because it's not fast, and it's not secure. If something is "going down", I don't want to be unzipping a backpack, I want to have a nice practiced draw. I would not like to set my backpack down, turn away, and find it missing. Or leave it somewhere then not have a gun on you when you need it. My $0.02. Good luck!

PS Take advice from Jim! :D
 
"Also, most, if not all states have laws making it illegal to carry a weapon on a public conveyance. "

Never heard of this in Florida.
 
thanks for the advice.

I've heard lots about it being illegal to carry on campus, but state law specifically allows carry on elementary and HS campuses as well as college ones as long as you're a licensed gunwearer.


I shall surely take jim's advice on this issue, and (money permitting) purchase a two inch j-frame smith (preferably used).


untill i can acquire one, I'm left with the officers model.
what would be the best .45 ACP ammo for this situation? 185 grain silvertips? ball?(probably not)
 
I think Jim March has the correct Rx for this ill.
38 snubby, 158gr LSWCHP

edit to add ( didn't see response)

185 gr STHP have worked --FOR ME--and intended use from 5" and 4" bbls. In MY guns or gunsmith's gun. All ammo should always be checked in a particular gun for reliability...always.
 
In 45ACP, we've been seeing a consistent pattern of "the shorter the barrel, the lighter weight of ammo needed".

The reason: JHPs open due to velocity, and even with a 5" tube, there doesn't appear to be a lot of extra speed to "spare", esp. with a 230grain non-plus-P load. By the time you're down to a compact model like the Glock 36 or 3"/3.5" 1911 type, I personally would strongly recommend the Cor-Bon Pow'R'Ball 165grainer. These are an unusual "pre-filled JHP", with interesting properties: since the JHP cavity is "pre-filled" with a rubber ball, they're highly resistent to "clogging" on clothes material. They go like a bat outta hell and expand well even in 3" tubes.

For a real-world example:

http://calguns.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=888602736&f=751609466&m=5636083181

In this case, he'd have had more effect with GOOD quality, carefully selected 38+P. Out of 4 rounds fired, he had 4 expansion failures with 230grain Hydra-shocks (which otherwise have a good rep!) in a 3.75" barrel. NOT good.

For more on the Pow'R'Ball concept:

http://www.gunblast.com/PowRBall.htm

Note how they're getting 85% retained bullet weight from a 5" barrel. That's great news for the short-barrel guys, as the pics and weight loss indicates that the rounds are at the ragged edge of coming unglued from too MUCH speed from a 5" tube. In a 3.5" - 4" barrel, they should be right in the groove, near-max expansion with little or no weight loss ('cept for the rubber ball of course).

Now, if you buy that Model 10 offa your pop, assuming it's already a round-butt type and otherwise in good shape, have a gunsmith chop it to 2.5" and throw a decent front sight on there (tritium if possible) and you'll have all the "carry snubby" you'll ever need :). You'll have one more shot, the longer-stroke ejector rod, etc. Run the checkout to make sure it's worth the effort first:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1430
 
Off-body carry means 'out of reach' when most likely needed.

If in backpack and set upon by thugs, likely you will have your bag grabbed, or you will be pushed-down or tripped when walking by.

If carry, always on the body.

I have a Kel-tec P32 in pocket holster, but this may be hard for you to find in CA.
 
I'll have to acquire some of that corbon stuff. does it have an inordinate amount of blast and flash? (i rarely ride busses at night, but the possibility exists)


since california restricts CCW holders to three guns, I'm forced to do some serious thinking on what i want to carry.


My primary piece will be my government model, (it has a checkered MSH and frontstrap, don't know how that'll affect clothing wear and concealability), secondary will probably the officers model chop job (when i can't really carry the fullsize well), and my backup piece will likely be a 2 inch j frame, because everyone needs a j frame, and they hide well either behind the hip or in front of the pelvis.

I'm starting to understand why dad uses commander and doesn't carry a backup. all this stuff is starting to look heavy.
 
I swear by inside the waist band holsters worn at 5:00. I pack a pre-agreement Smith & Wesson model 60 in a Kramer rig all the time, and have never felt uncomfortable in chairs or on seats.

You might think about a shoulder rig. I find them slower, but the concealment is about as good as it gets.
 
round these parts (northern virginia), it's illegal (as far as i know) to carry on the metro transit because metor is pseudo-federal jurisdiction, even when you're not in dc. otherwise, you're golden on transit.

as for schools, well, i know for a fact that there is no federal ban. here, the state bans in schools up through secondary school. currently, colleges sort of have the decision left up to them, but this is under some debate and may be challenged for state schools.

we did have that shooter at Appalachian State Law School that was stopped by students.
 
Some of the transit district have ordinances regarding firearms that are unenforceable because they have been superseded by state law.
Click to expand...

What about Tir-Met? I dont think I have ever seen any signs on the busses/trains or in the no-no list on the schedules????
I sometimes need to ride, I'd hate to go naked.


~Brian
 
It is not against federal law to carry on local transit systems.

Greyhound, on the other hand, even if hoping off in state, is another thing.

Trains, too, I believe. Not trolleys, trains. (Where's an ATF guy when I need one? Looking left and right....)

Schools are fine unless your state prohibits it. There is no federal law against it.

As for how to carry, which is what you asked, I recommend, like so many others, that you consider a quality IWB coupled with a quality gun belt.
 
Jim March.....

Thx for the links! QBG's description of his 'incident' was rivetting reading.

And ..... that Pow'RBall is something I shall look into ... it's design is VERY logical and even without testing I'd expect excellent performance.
 
Shweboner,

Tri-met would very much like for you not to carry a gun on their equipment. However, their ordnance prohibiting it is unenforceable due to the fact that the state legislature has said no municipality, county or "special district" of the state of Oregon can have laws more restrictive than state laws when it comes to carrying guns.

That's the long and short of it. www.ogo.org would be a good place to go for the particulars.

It's a good thing we have that little piece of legislation. Otherwise Herr Vera would make your CHL null and void in Portland in a heart beat. She wanted to "ban" CHL carry in Pioneer square for the 2001 New Years eve bash but it was pointed out to her that there was no legal way for her to do it.

Regards,
David
 
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