Identify This Old Milsurp

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Catpop

Catpop

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Joined
Dec 29, 2012
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Location
Eastern NC
Bolt action rifle
Marked as shown in pic
Also marked 7.62
Can the thread help me identify it?

my guess is an 1891 Muslin Nagant with a shorter barrel than most I see D0E655F6-E920-4A5F-B763-1249257828A7.jpeg 38F457C3-9CAC-4AD7-BBAD-E232824A16A3.jpeg

Anyway it needs an extractor, any help there also appreciated
 
Yes it used to have a bayonet, the bracket is still attached to side of barrel.
What caliber would it be, 7.62 x 54R maybe?
 
Catpop said:
Yes it used to have a bayonet, the bracket is still attached to side of barrel.
What caliber would it be, 7.62 x 54R maybe?
Click to expand...

I hate to say anything in the gun world is this caliber 100% unless I can see and touch it myself, there are alot of folks out there that love to change calibers, but my guess is 7.62x54r..
 
It is a T53 Chinese Mosin Nagant copy. I have one, dated 1955, and it is chambered in 7.62x54r. Hard to find replacement stocks for those.
 
Removing the bayonet throws off the Pount of Impact.
Regulation marks are scribed on the front edge of the globe sight base.
Throws off the elevation and the windage zero.
I beleve the sights are regulated with the bayonet extended.
 
Rex in OTZ said:
Removing the bayonet throws off the Pount of Impact.
Regulation marks are scribed on the front edge of the globe sight base.
Throws off the elevation and the windage zero.
I beleve the sights are regulated with the bayonet extended.
Click to expand...

Well, I took down a deer with out the bayonet at 250 yards, I think its accurate enough.
 
Rex in OTZ said:
Removing the bayonet throws off the Pount of Impact.
Regulation marks are scribed on the front edge of the globe sight base.
Throws off the elevation and the windage zero.
I beleve the sights are regulated with the bayonet extended.
Click to expand...
Does not throw the elevation off, and the windage is easily corrected. There isn't a huge difference, it's usually less that the CEP of the milsurp ammo.
 
Apparently, IIRC, China bought a whole section of one of the the factories which manufactured the Mosin M44 series rifle, when Russia progressed to the SKS and AK, shortly after WWII. They shipped the machinery to China, and proceeded to make the "T-53", the Chinese version of the Mosin Nagant carbine, which was about 8" shorter than the standard 91-30 model, and had a built-in cruciform bayonet. IF the barrel is original, it should be chambered in 7.62X54R.

Buymilsurp-dot-com in Largo, Florida, may be able to help you with an extractor, but my guess is you may have to just buy an entire bolt assembly. Not to worry, bolts are interchangeable, on most Mosins.
 
Last edited:
Not entirely true; as with Enfields, changing the bolt head can change the headspace. Be sure to check headspace if you change the bolt heads.
 
entropy said:
Not entirely true; as with Enfields, changing the bolt head can change the headspace. Be sure to check headspace if you change the bolt heads.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right. The No. 1 bolt heads were fitted one at a time to a particular bolt in a particular rifle--the marks on these U and M refer to the materials. Replacement bolt heads were marked with a S which were longer but over time most of these were fitted to rifles so can be any length. The no. 4, Mk. 1 bolt heads were numbered with 0,1,2,3 but these are ranges where a 0 might be longer than a particular 1 and so on. Gunboards ran a survey of bolt heads by numbers and it indicates a fair spread of length values within each number on the bolt. That being said, you cannot just plop one of these bolt heads onto a bolt to correct long headspace either. Still requires fitting the bolt head to the bolt body, just as the No. 1 does. From most of what I've gathered in information, the various numbers on the bolt heads were more to be used at the factory during assembly to speed assembling complete rifles with correct headspace and proper clocking of the bolt head. It was simply fortunate for later users that it allowed some correction of headspace upon wear and tear of the rifle.

A few Ebay sellers actually mike the bolt head for length and if you need one, might do better to pay the freight than play jeopardy. But, you can get lucky from time to time, won an auction on No. 4. Mk. 1/3 Long Branch barrelled receiver and bought a new old stock 0 bolt head. Required minimal fitting and now the rifle bolt clocks perfectly and the rifle has almost perfect headspace. Apparently the barrel was not shot much after the refit post WWII.

If your receiver lug recesses are done--either through wear or setback, putting a longer bolt head won't save the rifle just as putting a longer bolt in an old Mauser with similar issues won't. The Lee Enfield is a bit easier to notice that as it locks at the rear of the bolt while Mausers lock up in front.

Look up Peter Laidler's sticky on bolt fitting in milsurps.com in the Lee Enfield section of the forum for details how to do it. Not particularly difficult but something that needs to be done.
 
I bought one of these rifles about 1992 in a pawn shop for 40 bucks, oiled it, put it away and never really messed with it until about 2015 when I became interested in Russian Nagants and bought three Russians. The "T" I bought in (or about) 1992 I got out and fired it for the first time (in 2015) and it shot fairly well. The wood on the "T" that I have is different from my three Russian guns. I can't identify the species of the wood on my "T." In all I have a "T" and an M38, an M44, and one of the long infantry guns. I like them all and don't intend to sporterize any of them. The 7.62x54R is a very good cartridge. The guns are rugged and stout (except for the extractors!) and very historical. Plenty of parts out there to include head space gauges. Keep your gun and enjoy it. Hand it down to a grand son one day. The "T" guns don't seem to be too common in America. It may well have collector value to some enthusiasts. I love all the old guns, especially anything Mauser. The Mosin-Nagants are historical and great pieces to collect and shoot. They are good to hunt with as well. The sights are great for hunting in the brush, easy on the eyes and quick to bring on target. If I were you I would keep that gun.
 
Thanks for all the GREAT info! I knew I could count on yawl!
I’ve got an extractor ordered now and we’ll see how it goes.
As some have said the extractor is a real weak point in this rifle.
Again thanks
 
Dibbs said:
Apparently, IIRC, China bought a whole section of one of the the factories which manufactured the Mosin M44 series rifle, when Russia progressed to the SKS and AK, shortly after WWII. They shipped the machinery to China, and proceeded to make the "T-53", the Chinese version of the Mosin Nagant carbine, which was about 8" shorter than the standard 91-30 model, and had a built-in cruciform bayonet. IF the barrel is original, it should be chambered in 7.62X54R.

Buymilsurp-dot-com in Largo, Florida, may be able to help you with an extractor, but my guess is you may have to just buy an entire bolt assembly. Not to worry, bolts are interchangeable, on most Mosins.
Click to expand...
Would have been easier to just say that it a Chinese Type 53, a version of the Russian M44, made on old Russian machinery.
Oh! The rifle was built in November of 1954
I have three of them in my collection.
Here’s the last one I picked up. It’s most likely a Vietnam bring back, their is no importer stamp. The Chinese sent thousands of Type 53s to Vietnam as war aid for the Vietcong.
C0639EC2-5C6A-47C7-97C5-B43E10879A2B.jpeg 11BC5613-BABD-446B-9493-AA38EBB9F8D8.jpeg D335C2F4-A337-40F4-9C90-186E0B619F8B.jpeg 87CDFEB8-4C22-4FED-A02A-60EDCE78FF3A.jpeg 1D96595D-7C3A-476E-A501-134CD3EB973E.jpeg 9D353362-A7E3-44FA-8C3A-ACF1E7D59B9F.jpeg
 
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