The fact that a dude (or gal) is wearing a logo-ed up jersey at a shooting match is about as good an indication of actual sponsorship as the fact that some guy in the grocery store is wearing an NFL jersey indicates that he's a pro football player. Or that someone is wearing shoes with swooshes means they have a relationship with Nike.
IDPA 2018 Equipment Survey
- Thread starter alfsauve
- Start date
- Status
No, it's "complicated" for good reasons. The indirect relationship between total time and points and match results simply reflects that each stage is scored on its own and according to how well it was shot that day, that there's no such thing as a negative stage score, and that stages are weighted to give more effect to bigger stages that involve more shooting. That's all. Anything you do to make it less complicated would take away one or more of those dynamics, which are all important to the game. It would be a worse game with different match scoring.
I see what you're saying, but I don't agree that a bigger stage with more scoring should count more. A bigger stage with more targets is often spread out more and that favors the younger guys who can run faster, but not necessarily shoot better. But even if that's not the case in a particular match I still think the total match should be the deciding factor, not the individual stages within.
I think it would be a better game that way.
I think it would be a better game that way.
mcb
Member
I always though USPSA scoring was pretty simple. Calculate hit factor (points per second) for the stage. Your stage score is what percentage you HF is when compared to to the Division best HF on that stage. This percentage times the points possible on the stage in your stage score (weighted for stage size and against the best shooter in your division). Add stage scores to get the match score. Just because its simple math does not mean you don't get some interesting results.
The number of times I have won a division at club matches without winning a single stage is pretty significant. You're better off being a close second or third on all the stages then winning a few stages and crash and burning on the other. Obviously winning all the stages is the safest.
IDPA scoring is simpler but it never felt as good to me. I really like USPSA Hit Factor scoring, but arithmetic has never scared me in the least.
mcb
Member
Yeah that 1-sec/pt-dn was like throwing a boat anchor on a moped. Things got slow...
Jim Watson
Member
Back during the last lull in terrorism and high profile crime, there was a proposal to get IPSC in as an Olympic "demonstration" event.
Plan was to use "time plus" scoring a la IDPA and CAS so the spectators would know what was going on.
Of course that failed on the next crime wave as all shooters were tarred with the same brush.
Well, except last week when I had a brain fade and failed to make mandatory reloads. A procedural per shot zeroed the stage and threw me way down the list.
Plan was to use "time plus" scoring a la IDPA and CAS so the spectators would know what was going on.
Of course that failed on the next crime wave as all shooters were tarred with the same brush.
Well, except last week when I had a brain fade and failed to make mandatory reloads. A procedural per shot zeroed the stage and threw me way down the list.
Jim Watson
Member
I don't do that.
I won't BUY a shirt or cap to advertise somebody's product. If they want to give it to me, fine. But there is some reluctance to support Team Mediocre. I don't know why.
I generally have the same view, Jim. I'm just pointing out that hand-wringing about how many jersey-wearing "sponsored" shooters there are is misplaced. It's like going to the grocery store and concluding, "hey, how come half the people in this store are under contract with Nike and Under Armor and Addidas?"
OK, but a zeroed small stage, while not good, is typically less punitive to overall results than a max-time stage in a time-plus stage.
Zerodefect
member
I just think it would be great to get scored the same as the yoga pants people, if I'm stuck shooting against them in my class. A bit of favoritism going around.
And even when they do get every break, too many spend the next hour whining about everything. Do you guys have too many whiners at your shoots? Maybe I need to slide the camper on the truck and try some clubs further away?
When we have a mechanical issue ruin our night. We have fun "mimicking" the procedures of others to see if they'll call it against us. Results are predictable, give it a try.
And even when they do get every break, too many spend the next hour whining about everything. Do you guys have too many whiners at your shoots? Maybe I need to slide the camper on the truck and try some clubs further away?
When we have a mechanical issue ruin our night. We have fun "mimicking" the procedures of others to see if they'll call it against us. Results are predictable, give it a try.
And Jim asks what the deal with with the IDPA bashing...
That's the nice thing about USPSA. The vast majority of the calls are bright-line, so very, very little room for favoritism barring outright disregard of the rulebook. And a few years ago when someone acting as an RO got caught doing the latter by calling out fake times, he got a lifetime ban from the sport. Not the club, not the match... the whole dang organization.
mcb
Member
This is also why I like the most recent changes to IDPA. Many of the most difficult subjective calls (namely cover calls) got all but eliminated from the sport. Even it we ignore malicious/favoritism calls, making cover calls was often very difficult for the SO. A big competitor got a different call than a thin competitor. A really fast competitor might get away with something a slower shooter couldn't or vise-versa. Not maliciously, but simply because making the call was often difficult and doing it consistently was nearly impossible for a single SO let alone across a team of SOs. The new rules greatly improved that.
thomas15
Member
Jim I feel the same way about it. I do have a supply of baseball caps that I have won and those are what I wear. For shirts I were a plain Golf type shirt or one with my fire company cross.
Especially in SCSA it seems like everyone wears a shirt with all kinds of advertisements. Some are good shooters some are so so. Personally I refuse to pay someone to advertise their stuff.
thomas15
Member
I personally haven't used them but use another similar brand with good results. I know shooters that do very well in matches that use these bullets and like them.
Jim Watson
Member
So don't bash, just go away.
I quit IPSC for years at least partly because of the ridicule I took from the Cool Guys for pieing a corner as I had been learning for IDPA.
I am shooting some USPSA now, there seems to be less crap on the range, just on the www.
Blue Bullets seem to be the leader in coated lead. They have their own mix, not Hi Tek as used by most other shops.
Jim, I certainly don’t mean to “bash,” I just find certain things about one game funny versus the other. Like someone who is a basketball fan joking about long wait times in baseball. (I’m much more a baseball fan than a basketball fan, so I’m on the receiving end of it). I’m definitely for people shooting the game of their choice and to each their own preferences on which games they like better. Just idle talk on the internet with no offense intended.
Good Ol' Boy
Member
I'm actually surprised how many here are complaining about rules. For me it's about fun and some real world shooting under pressure. I want to "better my game" like a lot of folks but I don't take it too seriously.
For "non pro" some of you sure seem like you practice and attend matches like so. Three matches a week? I'm lucky to get two in a month. I do try to shoot at least once a week and dry fire a couple nights during the week, but that is about the extent of the current time I have to give. If circumstances were different I'd definately spend more time with it.
It's all a game and much like many others I think folks should relax a little and enjoy it, get what you can from it based on the time youre willing to devote to it.
For "non pro" some of you sure seem like you practice and attend matches like so. Three matches a week? I'm lucky to get two in a month. I do try to shoot at least once a week and dry fire a couple nights during the week, but that is about the extent of the current time I have to give. If circumstances were different I'd definately spend more time with it.
It's all a game and much like many others I think folks should relax a little and enjoy it, get what you can from it based on the time youre willing to devote to it.
That's a ridiculous comment. If you are serious about any sport and they changed the rules drastically every other year wouldn't it annoy you, especially if the changes fundamentally affected the speed of the game?
Honestly basketball games are too high scoring. They should make the hoop 50% smaller
Honestly basketball games are too high scoring. They should make the hoop 50% smaller
mcb
Member
I am a geek, gamer (pen and paper, computer or practical shooting sports) and an engineer so picking the rules apart is part of my career and most of my hobbies. It's just the way I am wired, I enjoy deconstructing rules that are part of whatever activity they might govern. If you write the rules to something I am going to look for way to optimize within the rules and will look for ways to break the rules if I can find it (ie 38 S&W sort of breaks IDPA revolver division equipment rules and they still have not fixed it). Just like appreciating the craftsmanship of a fine firearm there is craftsmanship in a fine rule set for a game, whatever that game may be and some of us look for and appreciate it when we see it and critic it when it's not.
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,088
“Gaming” might be breaking the spirit or original intent of the rules, while following the rules. Breaking the rules is cheating.
That’s pretty cut and dry. Had they not included the use of trimmed and shortened, not allowed part a gamer could have cut 357 or 38 spl cases to S&W length though.
I am as much of a gamer as anyone but when they changed the rules where GAP brass couldn’t be used in ACP revos, I quit using it. They changed the rules and allowed it again right before I welded up ACP on the side of the barrel on one of my revos and had GAP engraved in it.
So to me it’s cheating if you use it now but gaming if you “made” a 38 S&W 686 for instance. After all they don’t have a minimum production number like SSP. What can they say at that point? As it will match what is listed on the firearm.
Last edited:
Jim Watson
Member
Allus wondered what they would say if you showed up with a real deal Model 11. Or even a BSR.
I have wondered why USPSA or ICORE has not seen a .38 S&W along with the .38 Short Colts. Starline S&W is only $2.50 more a thousand than SC.
I think it was a superior case but the Starline is probably no different in construction, just dimensions.
I have wondered why USPSA or ICORE has not seen a .38 S&W along with the .38 Short Colts. Starline S&W is only $2.50 more a thousand than SC.
I think it was a superior case but the Starline is probably no different in construction, just dimensions.
- Status
