If hunting were like other sports

[Captcurt]

Golf course;

A waste of a perfectly good shooting range.

Golf is for people who can't catch a fish. Plain and simple. If I had a dollar for every hour that I have spent with a rod, bow, or gun in my hand I could own a ranch in south Texas.

 

[22250Rem]

I hunt because I've wanted to ever since I was a kid. Have loved the outdoors since then, also. Grew up around hunters and outdoors people. Guess it's just a natural progression. Hunting's kind of unique compared to most other sports.

 

[cheygriz]

More from Ortega y Gassett:

We have not reached ethical perfection in hunting. One never achieves perfection in anything, and perhaps it exists precisely so that one can never achieve it. Its purpose is to orient our conduct and to allow us to measure the progress accomplished. In this sense, the advancement achieved in the ethics of hunting is undeniable.

 

[BigBore44]

If hunting were like other sports, their scores would be lower. And the players paid a lot less. In hunting, even an average guy can be a superstar.

 

[buck460XVR]

Second place is also known as "First Loser".........

Was working a youth wrestling tournament a few years back and watched a kindergarten age youth proudly show his second place medal to his dad. His dad said exactly what you said above. While the little guy started to cry, the dad took the second place medal and threw it in the garbage can. Worked several youth wrestling tournaments after that and never saw the kid again. I see a similar thing in hunting. Too many of our youth and first time hunters are chastised when they're not successful. Happens to a lot of older and experienced hunters too. Even tho there are relatively few of us in the lower 48 that subsistence hunt, we tend to put a lot of focus on coming home with something dead in the back of the truck as a sign of success or amount of skill. I've seen many deer hunters proud as a peacock with their first buck, only to be chastised and belittled by someone because they "should have let it walk". In Hunter Safety class we try to instill to new hunters that every hunt you come home from, is a success. Even with an empty game bag you should have a pocketful of memories and new knowledge that could make you more successful on your next hunt. After half a century of hunting I have come to realize that most of the time, I learn a heck of a lot more coming home empty handed than I do from shooting my buck at daylight opening day. Many times the reason for that success is a lot of unsuccessful days in prior years. Sometimes, when one makes killing something the primary focus of their hunt, it leads to bending the rules to make it happen, or taking low percentage shots. When folks use every hunt as a learning experience, there are a lot fewer "bad days".

 

[cheygriz]

One of my good friends brought his daughter with us on her first hunt a few years ago.

The little lady nailed a nice 3X3 bull elk on opening morning.

When we got back to town, his neighbor told him, in front of his daughter, "Dan, ya need to teach that girl not to shoot the first thing she sees, but to hold out for a nice set of horns."

To his credit, Dan answered the neighbor: "Okay, as soon as you can teach her how to cook those f***ing horns."

 

[caribou]

Even the most serious Hunters MUST have patience, flexibility, and a bit of humility. We all bow before Nature.

When hunting is a 'job', or something a fella can do to secure to some funds (including trapping, fishing, etc) then sooner or later a fella hits the Eskimo adage ''Sometimes the best Hunter comes home with nothing''.

A few of these in a row can have a fella looking for other ways to make a living.
There are many ways that things go bad.
Besides bad days or bad weather, equipment breakdowns and ''Nature'', ''Murphy'', the ''get back up and ride that Horse'' mentality is a must. Approaching both the job at hand or to teach it requires as much patience as the waiting or the searching for the game you seek. It dosent matter if you are hunting for meat or horns.

Even just surviving the 12 foot waves, the ice Pack, torrential winds and rains, -0f cold or +110 makes for an accomplishment, and this is where the 'how we play the game' guys really just enjoy the experience.

 

[Patocazador]

Even just surviving the 12 foot waves, the ice Pack, torrential winds and rains, -0f cold or +110 makes for an accomplishment, and this is where the 'how we play the game' guys really just enjoy the experience.

Yes Caribou, and as you said as in other sports, "It's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game."
We must all remember to play fairly. A broken rule in reality is really poaching whether you justify it in your mind or not.

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

so its just that some value the antlers more than some value the meat.

Dad always said, "You can not eat the antlers no matter how long you cook them" (just saying)

Caribou, your post in #57 truly sums it up!

 

[caribou]

Yes Caribou, and as you said as in other sports, "It's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game."
We must all remember to play fairly. A broken rule in reality is really poaching whether you justify it in your mind or not.

I am fortunate to live in a very lightly populated area thats rich in game and a culture/society built apon hunting. The morals they developed are often mirrored in the game laws we have here, such as when certain seasons are closed or what to hunt, and when.

Where I live, there are two sets of laws to hunting,with a subset within both, the Feds and the State, and with some subsistence laws, we often have a different set of laws all together.
One ridge may have one set of laws and the next a different limit on the same animals. Were a checkerboard of lands, and paying attention to where you are whats the law is pretty much universal.

Theres a quote in my mind that I cant remember who said it....''Before you can get a man to do bad, you must convince him hes doing right'' or something to that effect.

 

[Dibbs]

With Hunting, Death is the goal.

????????????? Wow. Ouch.

I keep bees, for plant pollination. So deer, and many other species will have food. I plant large feed
plots which benefit birds, deer, and many other species. I create brush piles, for animal habitat. As
a result, the environment is flush with many unhunted species, as well as verdant flora. Every time I
pull a trigger, and an animal dies, hundreds, if not thousands of other animals live, through my
conservation, feeding, and habitat development paradigm.

Respectfully, I disagree. With hunting, fostering lush forest habitat is the goal. Yes, you kill an
occasional animal, while many others live a full life, serene, unmolested, and well fed. I
must submit if all you do is kill an occasional animal, your licensing fees support animal
habitat, in your state. However, many of us take hunting to mean a whole lot more than walking out into the woods a couple times during hunting season, and killing the occasional trophy.

 

[Art Eatman]

Dibbs, your care of habitat enables good hunting--but the intent of the hunt is to kill and thus have meat. Two different things.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Right. Dibbs what you are doing is conservation, something hunting may or may not be a part of.

 

[buck460XVR]

Dibbs, your care of habitat enables good hunting--but the intent of the hunt is to kill and thus have meat. Two different things.

Not always. Again....unlike Caribou, I doubt very much if any of us in the lower 48 are subsistence hunting, especially those of us with the financial capabilities for computer/cell phone and internet access. We are sport hunters. I am a avid musky/bass fisherman. I haven't taken home a fish to eat in years, altho I just went out for Fish fry on Friday night. Fishing is not much different than hunting. Can't tell you how many deer I passe up this season between archery and gun seasons and it ain't even over yet. I doubt very much if I'm alone in that respect, so to say the only reason to hunt is to kill something to eat is not always accurate. I hunt Grouse in the late winter to scout for next years deer season and this spring's turkey season, getting a grouse is a bonus. Many times I pass on the grouse since they have become rather scarce in my area the last few years. More of a thrill to have the dog point and to see one than to kill the only bird I see. Last spring I passed up several nice Toms early in the season because I was having too much fun hunting them to kill one right away. My intent was not the kill, but the challenge of getting birds close.

Now.....that's not to say there aren't folks out there that only hunt for the thrill of the kill. I see it all the time. Many of those folks give the meat away because they don't like the way it tastes, so while the intent is to kill, it has nuttin' to do with meat and eating. Regardless of he intent, as long as folks hunt/fish ethically, safely and within the parameters of the law, I don't have an issue as to what their intent is, even if it's not the same as mine.

 

[caribou]

I also admire the conservation efforts Dibbs describes.

The world needs more people doing things like that.

However, most of what is done down south to restore habitat is highly illegal here where the Arctic wilderness remains intact, where 250,000 Western Arctic Caribou herd migrate, Wolves follow, Salmon choke the streams, you can drink right from the river, etc, and then theres the ice.....and people hunt/fish/gather as they have for more than 12,000 years.

No roads, no fences, no agriculture, no chemicals,etc. Thankfully the environment here isnt 'broke', so theres no need to fix it.(a poor relation, but you get my jist, Im sure)

Its awesome to be able to discuss our highly various ways/means/views on this subject, as this is one big subject.

 

[mustanger98]

Some of this thread seems to beg that question... If Wiley Coyote could afford all that ACME crap, why didn't he just buy dinner?

I don't understand those who hunt for a perceived thrill in killing. I've had the displeasure of dealing with at least two or three who just can't wait to pull the trigger. I've heard Jim Shokey say for a variety of reasons that "trophy hunting" needs to be relabeled as "selective hunting". While I've always generally tried to be selective, I don't kill a deer or other animal I don't intend to eat. I think that also falls under "subsistence hunting", but it's not the only available source of sustenance. And in the course of selectively hunting, I've learned why some criteria works and some you can't bet on.

As far as some not preferring the taste of wild meat, the usual complaint I've heard is the gamey taste. I've not encountered that in a good while. Wild free-range (local-to-me) deer is some of the best tasting meat I can point to. Some people don't know to deal with the carcass correctly. Knowing how to process, or knowing a good processor helps a lot.

And if somebody owns land, why not improve the habitat?

 

[cheygriz]

When I was a child growing up in the fifties, my dad always taught me hunting ethics.

One thing he emphasized was "Never kill the big bucks or bulls. Leave them to breed. kill the forkhorns and 3X3s.

 

[jmorris]

...but the intent of the hunt is to kill and thus have meat.

I have been “hunting” a number of places where I don’t think the kill or meat even crossed some peoples minds. I have one friend who I have never even known to go out with a firearm but he always told his wife he was going hunting for the weekend.

I think some people are just hunting for a way to get out of town.

I’ll admit to enjoying a few books in deer stands when I could have killed and butchered something.

I suppose we could call some of the enjoyment “fellowship” vs “hunting”.

 

[Art Eatman]

Sure, I'm in no way a subsistence hunter. Trouble is, the A&Poo Feedstore and the Hoggly-Woggly don't sell deer meat or dove or quail. Don't want Dimmy Jean's Puke Poor Saus Linkages. So, if I want natural food on my menu, I go out and hunt and darned sure want to kill.

I've been content with does and with young sixes and eights. But every now and then I want to kick Old Biggie out of bed and collect him--and take him back to camp and look smug.

 

[Dibbs]

Soo, none of you stop, for a moment, to consider that the habitat from which you've just taken your
latest kills may not be able to produce more animals for you, in the future? Or that, perhaps, the habitat
which you took a six or 8 point THIS year, could produce for you a 10 or 12 point, with your help,
NEXT year?

 

[caribou]

Soo, none of you stop, for a moment, to consider that the habitat from which you've just taken your
latest kills may not be able to produce more animals for you, in the future? Or that, perhaps, the habitat
which you took a six or 8 point THIS year, could produce for you a 10 or 12 point, with your help,
NEXT year?

Actually, this a constant concern for all here in the Arctic.Its in my mind and in my eyes.

Even though on a differing tangent, we see our Caribou decline due to the lichens, sedge's and moss ''locked '' in ice due to mid winter warm up over the last 12 years the warm weather effectively brings rain and melts snow into water, which drains to the frozen ground and plants , pools and dosent drain but refreezes into ice.
The adult Caribou paw and poke through spots, but the majority will take off somewhere else, in search of accessible feed. Its the yearlings that drop off due to not eating for a couple days.Yearlings have neither strength nor weight to bust the ice and get nutrition.
I almost forgot, our Sheep are dwindling due to the same weather....
Luckily, we've had a few ''good'' winters that had calf survival up, but last year there was no gain in population (currently 250,000 in our local herd) Hopefully we dont get a warm spell this winter.

Second, but not least the habitat of Walrus, Bearded Seals and Ring Seals is degrading.
The ice is much thinner and cannot support the weight of the big animals, and for the first time last year,in recorded history, the Kotzebue Sound didnt freeze.
The lack of ice crowds the Walrus on the beaches, where they haul out to sleep and rest, impacting the feed and when the ice recedes over miles deep waters north of the continental shelf, the Walrus must go to shore...and the Polar Bears that eat them.....
This Spring, what little ice we found of the pack was very crowded with all kinds of seals, They are usually spread out and we wondered about their impact on the seafloor and fishes.

When the ice did go out, it was GONE in 2 days. We had Ring Seal pups abandoned all up and down our beaches andinthe Kiwalik Lagoon/river because the pups couldn't keep up with their parents who were gone with the tide, at about 4Xs the normal speed due to open waters.
This fall I flew with a pilot who did surveys and tracking for fish and game. They were checking out a huge bird die off in the Chukchi Sea they think happened because surface waters are higher in temp, the fish swim lower in the cool, beyond the birds ability's to dive, so they starved enmass.......

Warming has our permafrost melting, disappearing lakes, slumping and heaving lands, mud along the Ocean and rivers sides eroding at crazy rates, muddying waters and covering clean gravels that Shee and Salmon fish use as spawning grounds...

I get out and not only think about this 'Habitat'' I see it.

 

[Dibbs]

Well, you may be in a unique situation caribou, however I doubt most folks hunting in the 48
Continental States are in the same boat.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I have been “hunting” a number of places where I don’t think the kill or meat even crossed some peoples minds. I have one friend who I have never even known to go out with a firearm but he always told his wife he was going hunting for the weekend.

I think some people are just hunting for a way to get out of town.

I’ll admit to enjoying a few books in deer stands when I could have killed and butchered something.

I suppose we could call some of the enjoyment “fellowship” vs “hunting”.

Right, I know folks that get a deer or two opening weekend but continue to "hunt" the rest of deer season nearly every weekend, but never come home with another deer, but spend a considerable amount of money on alcohol and BBQ, LOL. Sort of like you said, they are hunting for a way out of town and "hunting" just means they aren't at home.

I get a kick out of the guys that tell me how much they enjoy hunting, that they would be out there with nature even if they didn't have a gun. Strangely, they never show up without a gun and they don't come that often. They may enjoy nature, but they aren't going to go and spend all weekend in a deer stand watching nature outside of deer season and they aren't going to show up during deer season without a gun. They don't ever leave deer camp once they reach their limit and in deer camp, they aren't doing much nature watching. It all seems very romanticized.

 

[caribou]

'Hunting' seems to have some pretty wild definitions........... or it may be a Newspeak definition, 'Hunting', or Politically Correct redefined word 'Hunting' to a soft and bloodless day amongst nature...., but if your not intent at least mildly on killing something, then your not really Hunting are you?

 

[jmorris]

Depends on the definition you pick.

I can’t tell you how much time I have spent hunting my keys over the years and I even have a hook I hang them on, most times.

Looks like the Eagles are in the hunt for a chance at the playoffs.