Illuminating Your Target: Krypton vs. Xenon

[Snowdog]

I've increasingly found myself working at night, so I've been shopping around for a flashlight that'll provide more light than the typical MiniMag, yet project a better beam than my current Inova X5. I don't feel one could ever put too much emphasis on target recognition.
However, I've come to realize I'm stingy... I swore I'd never be as stingy as my uncle Leo, though it turns out I seem have more in common with the man than just a mustache.

So, this is what I've decided on, along with rechargeable RCR123A 3.6V batteries. I figure with the 12V Xenon bulb, I'll be able to use three of the 3.6v lithium batteries without running the risk of toasting the bulb.

Now here are my questions: During my search, I encountered both the word "Xenon" and "Krypton" followed with at least one exclamation mark.
What the heck's the difference? Is one better than the other? Are they on-par with each other, yet each having a different suitability?

A search on the internet turned up nothing of value, so any info provided will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

 

[DigMe]

I believe xenon will give you a better, brighter beam. If you're willing to spend 50 bucks on a flashlight though I'd go with something proven like the Surefire 6P or a Streamlight Scorpion.

The Guide Gear stuff can be hit or miss and most of it is not really what I'd call "top notch." Whereas both of the above flashlights have great reps and are used by LEOs and emergency personnel all over the country. The Scorpion is brighter and tough but the Surefire has an unparalled rep for toughness and a great warranty. You can't go wrong with either.

I've also been hearing great early reports from people who've bought these $27 lithium/xenon Digilight flashlights. I'd buy any of the three I mentioned before I bought the Guide Gear despite it's clever sizing scheme. All three will seriously light up the night like you've never seen if you haven't previously tried a lithium xenon light. You'll be very impressed with any of them.

brad cook

 

[hcker2000]

There are some LED flash lights that will compeat with surefire. You are looking for some thing with a luxeon led. They can range from the $17 I payed for mine to $100.

 

[Snowdog]

Thanks for the info. I was under the slight impression the Xenon was a bit brighter than the krypton from the descriptions of the various flashlights I looked into.

Hcker2000, I do like LEDs, but I've already got an Inova X5 (5 white high-intensity LEDs, 2 CR123A lithium batteries) and feel the need for a more refined beam. However, I'll still have the X5 in the truck; it provides excellent light for most chores.

Brad, I do like that Digilight... but I already shelled out the money for the Guide Gear light. I'm confident it's manufactured in China as most Gary Olen's Guide Gear goodies tend to be. However, due to its 12v Xenon bulb, it's the only set up I could find which would allow me to use three rechargeable lithium batteries (3.6v as opposed to 3v for disposables) without blowing the bulb.

This is a litmus test for me; if the flashlight craps out, I'll make use of Olen's "Iron Clad" warrantee and put the refund towards the purchase of a name-brand light, such as a Scorpion... or perhaps that Digilight. We'll see what happens.
Though I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t curious what kind of a beam 10.8 volts through a Xenon bulb will kick out.

BTW, thanks for those links. If things don't go as planned, I'll likely be using them

 

[black bear]

I haven't try those rechargeables batteries but my understanding is that most of them come with very little capacity (750 mah) that will last you very little in runtime in those 3 123's lights.

Though I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t curious what kind of a beam 10.8 volts through a Xenon bulb will kick out.

I perhaps can answer that question, with a pair of pictures and the value in lumens output, but you are not going to get this out of a 3 123's batteries flashlight and not with the money you want to expend.
But this is the most powerful flashlight in the world an is produccing 951 lumens which is almost twice as bright as the Surefire Guardian M-6 (a $392 light)

The 10.8 volts out of 9 Nimhs rechargeable batteries estimulate a superbulb for ..951 lumens

All this coming out of a modified Maglite 3 D.

Beamshot with regular Maglite 3 D



Beanshot with modified Maglite 951 lumens



black bear

 

[Snowdog]

Black bear, thanks for the photos. That beam appears to be fierce! I've never been impressed with the amount of light a Maglight produces, but didn't know they could be modified either.
I am rather ignorant when it comes to flashlights (as I'm sure people reading my posts can imagine), but I would presume the 2-4 cell flashlight I ordered would give somewhere around 15,000-20,000 CP, which should be adequate for anything I'd need it for. As for burn time, in my line of work, I'd only use my light 10 minutes a day at the most, and they'll recharge within 3 hours (up to 1,000 times). They are also not plagued by memory, according to the manufacturer, so I can top off the charge whenever I feel the need.

If I need more than that, I've always got the 10 million CP spotlight behind the seat.

 

[DigMe]

But this is the most powerful flashlight in the world

What about that special edition 2000lumen light that Surefire put out that they were asking $3000 for?!

brad cook

 

[walking arsenal]

Xenon warrior princess

 

[black bear]

DigMe,

That is one of the most powerful searchlights in the world, you are talking about the Surefire "The Beast" which is a HID, as you know it takes a few seconds to get going (which takes it out of any use as a flashlight for tactical use) it also is BIG and VERY HEAVY and consumes 20 123's batteries.
It is not a flashlight to be use as a flashlight is used, the Army have a special mount for heavy machine guns, and is more at home in solitary frontier posts.
It is the same category as the Maxabeam of Jurassic Park fame, which I prefer as the Maxabeam is rechargeable.
Snow Dog ,
Your ten millon candlepower THOR weights 11 pounds, and you need a big back seat, my flashlight in my car go under the seat, as it is a Maglite 3 D, as "host" this make the "shell" replaceable in case of heavy damage for the platry sum of $20.00 as you buy another "host" and switch the parts.

And it is affordable, and produces 951 lumens which you can not get over the counter from Surefie or anybody else.
best
black bear

 

[hcker2000]

If you get a LED flash light that uses luxeon star led then the beam will be alot more focused than 5 normal leds. Here are some links for you to look over. Keep in mind I don't think any of them show the led with a reflector and that makes all the difference in the world.

The Makers of Luxeon Stars
A review of them.

 

[black bear]

Yes, hcker 2000 is right, the Luxeon Star III makes a good trower in a small light, with the reservations that lacking the red spectrum in the light the ability to show details at more than 30-35 yards is greatly impaired, and of course the white light of the LED makes it a poor performer in rain, fog, snow, smoke.
And of course as they depended in the electronics to function they are impossible to repair in the field if something go wrong with them.
Incandescents in the other hand can be fixed by changing batteries and a bulb now and them.
The thing that atracts most people to LED's is the longer runtime, which is not the forte of a Luxeon III drived at 917 mah, which drain the batteries in about an hour.

Oh, but the light is so beautiful for mormal chores and walking around!!! who can resist to have them? not me!! I have severals of the most expensives custom lights that our modders can turn up, mostly using the best body ever made for a small flashlight, of course I am talking about Surefires E series bodies matches to gourgeous PR and PR T heads (PR= Pelican reflector)
Want to see same samples from my collection?
Here some Surefires E2e's with McGizmo PR T heads Luxeon III driven by DB 917 electronics.




here a PR head and a L-4 digital Lumamax



Make not mystake, they are not as good as a 6P with P-60 lamp, even if some produces more lumens.
And it is not such thing as cool light in these, they get HOT.
black bear

 

[hcker2000]

Those are some nice flash light mods. I was suprised at how bright the one in my flash light is. It is only a 1 watt led. How many watt are the ones you are using in your surefire bodys?

 

[Seven High]

Brinkmann Maxfire

Have you looked at the Brinkmann Maxfire LX at Walmart. It has the xenon bulb. Sells for under $20.00. I really like mine.

 

[Khaotic]

Just out of curiosity, I just have to ask.

I actually can't use most of these because they're TOO bright, causing (for lack of a better word) backflash effect that blinds ME, instead of effectively painting my target.

I know a few other people who have issues with trying to use one of these 'uber' flashlights as well, and was wondering how common/uncommon that issue is ... anyone know ?

That being said, those are some nice lights, decent potent and compact design as well.

-K

 

[Snowdog]

Seven High, I actually bought the very thing you're talking about (silver with black rubber grips, right?) at Wal-mart for around $15. However, it wasn't but a week later that I gave it to my sister during a visit after she showed me the "cute" little single AAA flashlight in her purse. It was a fine flashlight, but I figured she likely needed it more than I did. A week after, I came to the realization that a Minimag just wouldn’t cut it and purchased the Inova X5.

As for an update, I've received my 4 cell flashlight and am quite pleased. With the 3 rechargeable 3.6v lithium RCR123As, it certainly does project a wicked beam, more so than what the Brinkman displayed. However, there's one annoyance and one concern.
I would have really appreciated a "temporary on", but with this model the unit is either clicked on or clicked off. No big deal, but I would have preferred an intermittent-use function. The concern is the lamp; it gets hot in a hurry! I'm under the impression this is normal, considering the Xenon lamp is sitting on 10.8v worth of lithium batteries, but I wonder if allowing it to heat up past a certain point shortens the bulb's life expectancy.

Over all I'm quite happy with it.

 

[black bear]

hcKer2000,
Those I have use a 2 battery set up, so they work well with the 3 watt (Luxeon Star III) that is designed for throw.
They use elctronics called a Down Boy, this type regulate and the voltage getting to the Luxeon from the 6 volts that the batteries produce to 4.5 v.
This type of board will always send the same amount, if you put more batteries (in a longer body) you will gain more runtime.
Sometimes Luxeons I are put in small flashlights that use only one 123 battery, then they use a board called a Bad Boy that increase the voltage of the battery.
I have one like that in a Surefire E1e body with a KL-4 head in which the Luxeon V had been removed and replaced with a Lumileds Luxeon I, it is small and powerful, the work has been done by Mc Gizmo "the" most Premier of our modders. Here is the picture.



snowdog,
Don't worry about the heat shortening the lamp life, is on the contrary when you don't allow heat to accumulate is when the lamp suffer the most.
The xenon-halogen cycle redeposit or recicle the tungstem that is vaporized, for this to works it has to be on to get hot enough (about 15 seconds at least) the problem is when (as is trained in tactical) people flash the light in short bursts. That repeating electrical shock is bad for your lamp, notice how regular bulbs blow when started, it is because the initial shocking voltage is always greater than the operating one.
Did you get a extra lamp?? I imagine they are hard to come by.
black bear

 

[black bear]

Khaotic,
I am sorry I forgot to address your issue.
But no, it don't happen to me, I have used heavily a Surefire 9 P and a C-3 with 200 lumen lamps for years, to search house in the dark, basement etc. and I have experience no problems with backslash!!
I have change those chores to a Maglite modified for 951 lumens and still don't have a problem, it could be that your eyes are more sensitive than mine, but I have light blue eyes and I am sensitive to the sun.
I don't say it can not happen if certain special conditions are meet, like white bared walls very close to the source of light.
But in my appreciation, the more light..the better!!!
black bear

 

[Valkman]

If you're cheap but want alot of light, just get the Surefire G2 Nitrolon. Cheap, bright and lots of accessories! A guy sold me one at a gun show for $20 and it's a great tough little flashlight. You should be able to find one for $25 to $30.

 

[DarkKnight01]

Another vote for the Brinkmann Maxfire... mines great.. has a momemtary on, or clicky on the tailcap.. unlike the G2.. I like having the option of constant on and it would be very hard for it to activate in a pocket the switch is covered by some rubber and is pretty flush to the tailcap... Just pull the rubber grips off (the rubber tends to make the light stick in your pocket not good for fast deployment) and wrap with tape or leave as is... I left mine as is for now... and just got an order of batteries from surefire... cant beat their prices...

 

[Grayrock]

Blackbear- what are the mods to the MagLite for 951 lumens? How much does it cost? What effect does it have on battery life and run time? Are the mods something I can do, or do I have to send it off? I have a 4 -D cell light- will it work on that?

 

[svtruth]

Redundancy

Are there any with 2 bulbs so when one burns out you aren't left holding an expensive stick?

 

[Sven]

blackbear: I'm interested, too! Is this from one of those 20,000 page candlepower forums threads? Hard forum to get around on - esp. for group buys. You need DSL just to load a single thread there LOL.

 

[Kevlarman]

Hehe, it seems Juan is passing on his CPF knowledge to use folks here at THR!
He's nothing but a stand-up guy, and I highly recommend his 951 lumen Maglite!

Also, how much would I be looking at if I wanted to replace the head on my L4 with one of those long-throwing Aleph heads and an overdriven LuxeonIII?

 

[secamp32]

Here is a light that will melt your retinas

Streamlight TL-3 Xenon. The new TL-3 is LED and not as bright. This 1 is advertised as 200 lumens. I have 1 and its almost as bright as my Ultra stinger and brighter (to my eyes) than my Surefire Z2 with the high output lamp. The beam is not as clear and as well defined as the Surefire lights but its is MUCH cheaper. It is also much brighter and not much bigger than my Inova T3 which is a 3 watt luxon led light.

I found it on closeout for $45 at
Expresspolicesupply.com

 

[black bear]

Sven and Greyrock,
I don't know if I can do this in here Sven, you are the moderator if I am out of line please delete this.
But the Maglite modified for 951 lumens that I am selling is in the thread in Buy Sell and Trade: Accessories.
It is a long thread that will explain everything that you need to know about my light.

svtruth
A spare bulb is included with my light, change the bulb and keep scaring the bejesus out of the shadows.
Kevlarman,
Thank you for the compliment, and also for your appreciation of my light.
The head will set you up about $120.00 I can highly recommend McGizmo as the most prominent modder.
Don't go beyond Down Boy 917 to drive a Luxeon III as the light will overheat too much if pushed to 1000
I will go with the Luxeon bin that he had, probably will be TYOJ or similiar all very white and the best obtainable.
best regards
black bear