importance of headspacing on mil-surps

[silverlance]

I confess.

I have a rather bad case of milsurplitis. I buy darn near everything that the little green mall ninja in me (actually, he's more of a crocodile dundee kind of fella) demands. So now I have skis when I don't know how to ski, glacial boots when the nearest glacier is 5000 miles away, resin covert israeli knives that I would never carry, ponchos galore, and enough overcoats and blankets to have saved napoleon from the winter of 1841.

but recently, I've become rather worried. You see, I have five milsurp rifles. I never headspaced any of them - just bought it from either Big 5 (a chain sporting goods store) or Turner's and then pressed it into service after a meticulous cleaning. Out of the five, I have one MNagant 91/30 that has an ejector that hasn't been proper curvatured, resulting in a very hard chambering action. That one is currently on ice.

But in the process of investigating that peculiar issue, I read quite a few dire, sometimes even downright SCARY admonitions to properly headspace all mil-surps lest they detonate in my face.

But how does one headspace a gun at the store? it's not as if the kid behind the counter is going to let me field strip, then pound out the ejector, and then see IF I'm going to buy the gun. And, of course, one cannot take a purchased gun back to the store and demand a refund after having pounded away at it. At least, I can't.

So that makes me wonder - how important is headspacing, when one is dealing with guns that are purchased from CAI and through reputable dealers? Has anyone here actually had a gun blow up? And, how can I do this economically - that is, headspace test BEFORE buying the gun? And where can one get No-Go gauges?

Do tell me your thoughts.

 

[dakotasin]

never had one blow up, but have had head seperations.

 

[armoredman]

Local gunsmith will be able to help. I took my Enfield down to Murphys, who was so jealous of the perfect bolt he didn't want to give it back!
If you can't find anyone local, you can order coin gauges through the internet to headspace...I'll bet Midway carries them.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Some rifles you just simply won't be able to get gauges to check headspace, 7.5MAS , 6.5carcano ect....

SO! What I do is on the first round on an old milsurp I wear my saftey glasses and fire from the hip, with the idea that if something really bad happens I''ll have the gun as far from my face as possible.

Afterwards I remove the spent case inspect for exsessive strectiching.

NOW on some old sporters that may not have the caliber stamped I use a light charge of Unique under a case full of Malt-O-Meal held in place with some candle wax, (Old school case fireforming) after firing you have a pretty good copy of the chamber.

 

[hso]

There's a trick my gunsmith showed to me.

Take a round for the rifle and chamber it. Eject. Put a layer of masking tape on the casing on the primer side. This simulates Go/No Go guages. Repeat. If you've got too many layers you've got poor headspace and the gun might go BOOM instead of bang.

Anything more than 1 layer could be too much space.

 

[Diomed]

Depends on the rifle. If there's a good gas venting system, you'd have to have a bolt so out of spec that you can see daylight around the rim of the bolt face when it's locked up before it poses a safety threat.

I get my milsurps checked as a rule, but I know (at least with the Enfields) that if it's off the worst I'll get is a seperated case head and/or abysmal accuracy. No real danger. Other rifles not so much.

 

[Mal H]

I'm not sure about the headspacing question, but tell me more about Napoleon and the winter of 1841.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

 

[rockstar.esq]

I'm curious what a "coin gauge" is? If you're talking about go, no go gauges I've heard of them but never heard the term.

 

[g56]

One thing to look for is matching serial numbers on the bolt and the action, stamped numbers on the bolt, not electro penciled!

 

[RON in PA]

Matching numbers help, but not all bolts are numbered as in US bolt guns. I've read that after battles rifles retrived from the battlefield are stripped, cleaned and and put back together without regard to matching parts. This is a controversal statement, but I believe that headspace is overemphesized and that it becomes more important if you reload. Excessive headspace leads to incipient case head separation which is ok if the case is shot only once, reload and you have problems.

 

[silverlance]

yes yes

Thank you poster for that trick about the masking tape and cartridge. good one, I think. Makes sense.

Well, so far I haven't had any serious problems. But I'm always more than bit nervous when touching off the first round from a new used gun, and it's always a relief when nothing goes kaboom.

my mauser 24/47 yugo is almost degreased, and i'm hoping to fire it this sunday. i don't have any gauges, and I won't be getting a gunsmith to look at it, either. we just don't have gunsmiths that will look at guns for reasonable prices around here. i'm willing to pay up to $15 for the service - i mean, how hard can it be to look over a mosin nagant / mauser / sks / enfield?

oh, and Mal -

I was hoping nobody would call me on that one - ok, I claim poetic license with regards to my haphazard dating of events. =P

 

[swingset]

Remote fire you gun (duck below the bench, put a sandbag over the action), and look for obvious signs of overpressure. Is it difficult to extract? Bright rings around the base of the cartridge? Pierced primers, etc?

If everything looks good, forget about it and enjoy the rifle.

I've been doing that for years and years, never an issue with headspace.

 

[ball3006]

What I have found out is.....

when you take a milsurp to a gunshop and ask for a headspace check, the fee usually is what the headspace gauge costs plus a labor fee. You get your rifle checked and the gunsmith gets a free gauge. Just buy one and you can check any rifle you pick up in the future.......chris3

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Here is a nice little article on what is headspace and how to properly check it in the comfort of your own home.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/headspace/index.asp

You need headspace gauges to get an accurate reading. If you plan on buying more than one rifle in a certain caliber, they might be a good investment. Otherwise just take them to a gunsmith or try your luck with the "tape meathod", it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy a set of gauges for each rifle unless you really want to "do it yourself".

P.S. Headspacing on bolt-actions and some autoloaders is easy, however, some rifles like the FAL have other parts that adjust the headspace and it can get tricky.

 

[Double Maduro]

Speaking of headspace.

Anybody have a headspace gauge for a Ma Deuce they don't want anymore? A friend of mine was on riverboats in a southeastern country or two and gave his away.

He mentioned in passing one day that he wished he still had it. Since his birthday was last week, and this thread made me think of it, I thought I would ask.

I was at a gunshow a couple of months ago and this booth had a Ma Deuce on the table, a beauty she was. I asked if they had a headspace gauge for her and all I got was blank stares. They directed me to the head woman and when I asked her about a headspace gauge she said, "what's that?".

I take all of my used firearms to a smith before I shoot them. After all what's a few bucks compared to your eyes, face, hands, life?

The only used gun I had a problem with was an LC Smith double gun. It couldn't be made safe. I was heartbroken, I really liked that gun. It was gonna be my grouse gun.

Thanks for any help on the M2 headspace gauge.

DM

 

[cracked butt]

I wouldn't worry about headspacing much unless you are going to reload for the rifle. Most surplus rifles were way overbuilt by governments who needed a dependable war rifle, not by cost saving engineers who were shaving off a little metal here or there on parts to save a nickel in price and assure 'planned obsolescense.' The worst that is going to happen is a case will seperate at the head, release some of the gas out to the side of the receiver or down the magazine well, and in extreme cases, lock the bolt solidly shut.