In Missouri, the no ccw sign, my employer comments, I make a decision...

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Weimadog

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I manage a branch of a small business, located in the City of Saint Louis. It is part of a larger company, which is based in Kansas City Kansas (that state has no ccw permit system). The owners might visit once a month, or less often than that. They don't bother us much, as long as we earn $ for them. They don't like guns much, and have given me a hard time about carrying one at the business. They have stopped short of forbidding me from carrying one while working for them.

Along with my wife and son, I live in an apartment above the shop area. If somebody breaks into the business, it is very likely my family and I will be in the building. My wife and I made the decision to be armed while at home and at the business, as most other businesses in this four block area have been broken into in the five years we have been here.

I was speaking with one of my employers and long time friend about the new ccw law going into effect. He knowsI took the ccw class, as a requirement for getting a ccw license after 11 October.

What really shocked me was when he asked me if I would post a sign forbidding ccw at our retail area. The idea just never occured to me. His point was that most accidental gun deaths are kids getting ahold of a gun, like when somebody sets down their jacket, and the kid shoots himself or somebody else. He wondered if I would be made nervous by people with guns so close by. When I told him no, ccw license holders don't make me nervous, he said
"Kind of like a wolf who doesn't mind being around other wolves.":fire: :fire: :fire:

I have a lot of work to do to change his mind.

The local Second Amendment rights groups, like the Second Amendment Coalition of Missouri, say that this is the time to be vigilant, and not let the antis grab the stage with hystaria over the impending Wild Wild West atmosphere. They're right. If you live in Missouri, please, stay active in the cause. We can keep the ccw law if we can convince people like my employer that the tales of gloom and doom just don't come to pass after a state gets a ccw law.

There will be no sign forbidding ccw in this business.

Weimadog
 
I applaud you stance against the big boss - but be prepared for further intrusive "advice", since I personally don't foresee him dropping the matter just like that.
 
"Kind of like a wolf who doesn't mind being around other wolves."
Personally I am more nervous around sheeple and large numbers of sheeple. Even if I cant be a "wolf" for another 9 months, they still make me nervous. Sheeple in power are a VERY dangerous thing.

"Beware the power of stupid people in large groups..."

Weimadog, have you thought of posting a "CCW's welcome" or somesuch thing? Sort of a good PR thing for your business?

OTOH, it may hurt business. Damn.:(
 
Don't want to be a sheep:

They're dumb, easily herded, easy to scare. One of the reasons I quit going to church was my resentment at being compared to a sheep. I just can't respect a deity who wants to shear me, eat me, or .....well, you've heard the jokes.

IMAO, humans at their best more closely resemble wolves.
 
there's nothing wrong with being compared to a wolf, they're intelligent, cunnnig and self reliant, they're also team players and very loyal.
 
"Kind of like a wolf who doesn't mind being around other wolves."
Perhaps more like a SheepDog willing to protect his flock while around the other wolves, I'd opine.

As for any signs, I'd limit ANY to "Illegal" CCW banned/forbidden/frowned heavily upon.

As if it's necessary (or would do any good amongst those who have little capacity for intelligent reasoning) Point out that any who would submit voluntarily to being fingerprinted, have mug shots taken and an FBI background check AND being "Registered" with their local Sheriff are usually NOT the type you need worry about as they've also had 8 hours minimum of classroom time on use of lethal force (read good guy) and have actually paid hard earned money for all of the above.

But it'd probably be a waste of time trying to explain that to those who are still trying to "find a clue".

I've said it before (probably say it some more) and it bears repeating, "For some, no explanation is required... for others no explanation will suffice"

Concealed means concealed. Written, spoken and physical. Have a smile on your face to everyone you meet and plan on protecting your life at all times.

It still amazes me to meet people who tell me that they do not trust themselves around firearms as they KNOW they'd probably use one in anger... and they project that same thought process to all they meet. I call it the "Evil Twin Skippy" syndrome. And yet they don't mow down school-children in cross-walks while driving. They're just afraid of things that go bang.

Adios
 
If you need some good legal arguments to convince your employer of why posting "No CCW" is a bad idea, hop over to http://www.tsra.com/ and check out the section on 30.06 signs (Legal CCW prohibited).

They have some letters written to businesses that posted these signs - some by actual lawyers that are quite good and can give some excellent reasons not to post them.

Another thing to consider is liability, some places in Dallas that posted no CCW originally have removed the signs - not because they suddenly developed any love for gun rights; but because their lawyers told them that if they posted but didn't make any effort to insure that the signs were being complied with (metal detectors, screening) they might be opening themselves up to liability (after all if you can sue the manufacturer, distributor, etc. for selling the gun legally...). Since none of them wanted to start patting down their customers they ditched the signs as the path of least resistance.
 
Hey, Weimadude - I gotta bring a fiddle down sometime for youse guys to look at... Yeah, yeah, I know - been saying that for the past year or so... (guys, he's just a few blocks from me...) But if I see a "no ccw allowed" sign on the door, well, you can tell your boss that I'd sooner take it to that fellow who absconded with all the stuff!

I'd put up a "No Illegal Guns" sign, and leave it at that. I keeps the folks from the CWE and Webster happy, and CCW holders can ignore it.

By the way, Knob Creek is in about a week - y'all should go!
 
business that post anti-ccw signs loose business QED.

when the texas law passed, the leftist- Texans for Gun Safety, put on a scare campaign to get businesses to put up the signs. those that did lost business and had to listen to CHL holders complain about their stupidity.

Almost all the signs were gone within the space of a year. The business owners still suffer for their mistakes as a lot of people found out how stupid they are and still remember.
 
Weimadog, what's your business and where are you located? While the frightened urbanites cower in fear behind their signs, I'd be glad to patronize CCW-friendly establishments.

PM me if you'd prefer.
 
His point was that most accidental gun deaths are kids getting ahold of a gun, like when somebody sets down their jacket, and the kid shoots himself or somebody else.
Tell him that most accidental gun deaths of children occur when a) children are not educated about guns, b) parents or other caretakers are drugged out or drunk or otherwise absent and c) children are not otherwise properly disciplined.

You might also point out his liability in case of a robbery.
 
Bartholomew, I went to the TSRA site and could not find the letters you discussed. Please help.

Thanks,

Albin
 
"Kind of like a wolf who doesn't mind being around other wolves."

More like:
" Kind of like a sheepdog to protect the sheep from the wolves."
 
bogie,

You are welcome at our shop any time, though if you want to bring a ccw, I will have to install a drive-through.*



*This is sort of an inside joke, as bogie carts his benchrest gear around in a van. The joke would have been a lot funnier a couple years ago, when bogie often had his pickup with dozens of pro rkba stickers all over parked just up the street. It was sort of like an anti-stealth vehicle. j

Meekandmild, and others, thanks for the advice. I will mention the liability issue.

Weimadog
 
Perhaps "... more like a longhorn who doesn't want the rest of the herd to be dehorned."
 
His point was that most accidental gun deaths are kids getting ahold of a gun.…

Uh … First, try cops “accidentally†shooting themselves, each other, or innocent citizens. Then you have hunters plus alcohol plus rifles and shotguns. Finally, there are the uneducated kids and improperly secured handguns.

~G. Fink
 
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His analogy wasn't THAT bad. He feels that you're not afraid of people with guns because YOU have a gun. The fact that this analogy rolled off of his tongue indicated that he understands this: that people with the means of self-defense have little need to worry about becoming prey. He already knows this, but he doesn't know that he knows it.

Follow?

If you can get him to tell you why he thinks these people have permits, you'll be on your way. "Because they're paranoid gun-nuts" is going to leave you with a lot of work to do. Have him take into consideration the cost (gun + ammo + training + permit = at least $500), the time, and the legal background checks and it's hard to argue that the average permit holder is a vigilante. They are people who have decided that their lives are worth defending and that in some instances, a gun is the only way to go home to their families alive. If he chooses to depend on others for his safety, no one has a right to question it, but it does't give him the right to question those who take personal responsibility for their safety.
 
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