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India Guns Won't Shoot

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Loyalist Dave, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Good Morning Folks,
    Well I took one of my two flintlock trade guns out twice in the past three months. It's from a company in Canada, and it came ready-to-shoot, with the touch hole drilled, and was sold with the intent to shoot it with live ammo.

    I know some folks think the India origin flinters are "junk, the locks don't spark", or are "pipe bombs", etc etc. The only thing I did to mine was to paint the stock with oil based paint in a colonial red as they sometimes did, and to add the brass flash guard to the lock to conform to historic site safety regs at locations near to me. o_O

    I like to use 80 grains of 2Fg in a book-paper cartridge (I harvest a hardbacked book from Dollar Tree for this ;). ) After I dump the powder I crush-up the now empty paper cartridge tube, and ram that down as the wad. Then I load 1 oz. of #4 or #5 shot, also in a paper cartridge though I use newsprint for these, and I leave them intact when I gently seat them against the wad. I prime with 3Fg from a horn after loading.

    The first photo is Dec 10, and the second photo is yesterday, the last day of squirrel season in my state.

    OH..., yesterday, I tried using a 1/2" fiber wad instead of crushing the empty, used, powder cartridge...lubed with 30:60 beeswax and olive oil. Both methods seem to work well, as the last two squirrels were taken at about 20 yards from me. I've also swapped out the ramrod for one that I made from a straight grained blank. So far....I haven't blown myself up yet. :thumbup:

    Squirrels Dec 10.jpg

    February Squirrels 2019.jpg

    LD
     
  2. Heir Kommt Die Sonne

    Heir Kommt Die Sonne Member

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    I like the oil paint idea. Gives it uniqueness and makes it more original as well. I like modifiying my repro guns that way. The little things you see they did back then, to do as well to yours.
    And I'm sure you cooked the squirrels up nicely, I suppose?
     
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  3. Ironhand54

    Ironhand54 Member

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    My India gun is a 75 caliber carbine from probably the same company. 100gr ff and a 735 ball. Ain't blowed up yet. :thumbup:

    Ironhand
     
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  4. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    They are marinating, and I'm going to try an air fryer on them....fingers crossed....

    LD
     
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  5. midland man

    midland man Member

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    yep I bought one here in December and my india 20g/62c smooth bore is still operating just fine! I bought a lee .600 roundball mold and casted up a 119 balls and loaded these like a shotgun using a 1/2in felt wad soaked in lube and a hardcard under that on top of the powder and a thin card on top to keep the ball from moving and I use 80grs 3f goex and it shoot nice groups at 30-35yrds. plus I use this same load but with 1 1/4oz of shot for squirrels and 1 1/2oz of 6 shot for turkey! :)
     
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  6. zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen Member

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    I have had 4 India made pistols. The Ketland reproduction lock sparked better than any flint lock ever made by Thompson Center.
     
  7. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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  8. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Never thought of Dollar Tree dollar books for cartridge paper. Thanks!
     
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  9. patch-n-ball

    patch-n-ball Member

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  10. patch-n-ball

    patch-n-ball Member

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    Good shootin LD! :)
     
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  11. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    NO I did not buy from Military Heritage.
    (Technically those folks are the sellers, not the "makers". ;))
    I have seen their muskets using India parts..., and I buy all of my India-origin muskets from Loyalist Arms LLC, Canada. They come ready-to-shoot. MH guns you must drill the touch-hole, at least last time I looked at some.

    LD
     
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  12. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    Hi LD. I knew MH didn't make the guns and IIRC the guns they do sell come from India and I was wondering if they were the same make as the gun you wrote about. I posted a thread a while back asking if the MH guns were any good and most said they weren't. Or at least not top of the line. I knew that, The price tells you they not up with custom made guns but the price was doable and as long as they were safe to shoot that was all I was after.

    Drilling a whole is no big deal. I worked in my machine shop from age 10 to age 26. I have drilled thousands of holes. A month.
     
  13. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    There's probably more than one company in India that makes reproduction guns.
    Even if they look similar, they may not all be the same or prepared the same by each importer.
    Some of the importers seem to sell models that another importer doesn't offer, such as percussion models which makes me wonder if each importer's guns come from the same manufacturer or not.
    Maybe all the importers get some of their guns from a variety of suppliers.
    I also say that because some people have said that they have bought their gun directly from India.
    There may be a company that makes locks for various other companies, or another component just like US outfits use when building their guns here.
    Look closely at the models for differences and ask the importer questions, especially about the specific gun that you want to buy.
    They don't have every gun that's advertised in stock and available.
    There's also Veterans Arms in Georgia that has a 10 day unfired return policy.
    I noticed that both Veterans and Loyalist sells kits that require hardening the frizzens, polishing springs, tune lock etc....that are sold as is.
    Different batches of guns may be made from different batches of wood, steel, different craftsman or different shops altogether.
    Yet it's the same basic model. Who knows?
    I personally wanted to know if Loyalist sells their percussion guns with the nipple threading completed or not.
    They state that they use Euroarms size nipples, but I don't know if they ship those to the US complete or not, or just minus the nipple.
    At Veterans Arms, when I clicked on available parts it sent me to an eBay store that they must operate.

    I wonder if some of these Indian gun companies have subcontractors or if they own more than one shop.
    Even the US importers of Italian guns used to obtain guns from various gun makers which were sometimes hidden by using coded makers marks or importer's stamps.
    But with the India made guns, I don't know if there's any makers marks or not to be able to differentiate who actually made it.
    It seems to be based on the reputation of the importer, and in part how well they finish their guns after they received it.
    That's how Middlesex Village became so highly regarded before they went downhill and lost their reputation and popularity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  14. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    As always excellent post Arcticap.
     
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  15. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Years ago a fellow who poo-poo'd guns from India made the claim they came from one maker, and had no marks on the barrel. I pulled the barrels from the ones I owned at the time and on each there was a date stamp (which I assume if somebody went to the trouble of stamping a barrel with a date it was a manufacture date), and there was a maker's stamp.

    LD
     
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  16. Erwan

    Erwan Member

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    Did you ear about this one ?
    - http://www.rajasthanarmoury.com/index.htm

    When on the the indian guns the frizzen doesn't make sparks this just needs a carburizing treatment and a good blond flint: the indian steel is good...

    (I still haven't made any progress in English :()
     
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  17. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    I've never had to add carbon to a frizzen from India, though I have had to take a couple of frizzens to a lock builder here in the US to check the hardening. Once hardened and tempered, they work just fine.

    LD
     
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  18. Erwan

    Erwan Member

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    Yes, this action is useless for most of them because Indian steels are generally of very good quality and well used. I made a reparation of a dealing rifle something like four years ago and I was surprised by the quality. The Indian muskets are good as Italian muskets (for that kind of muskets) except maybe the wood which is not walnut...

    One day, later, perhaps that the people will use Indian guns, why not.... ;)
     
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