Indiana CCW law and South Bend

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michiganfan

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Planning a trip to South Bend for a wedding. Have a Michigan CPL. What are the local South Bend laws on concealed carry? The source I was looking at on the net said South Bend has its own local laws not preempted by state law, so I figure I have to know what are the local South Bend laws.

And what the Indiana restrictions state wide on CCW?

thanks
 
Indiana law says you may carry on an out-of-state license "according to the thereof." Interpretation of what that means varies, but I have seen a letter from ISP quoted on ingunowners.com that is a very strict interpretation.

Most Indiana gun laws are at http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/

South Bend has some laws predating state premption (edit: further investigation tend to show that the SB laws are null and void, IANAL, YMMV), that talk about magazine capacity and assault weapons, and the fines are "stiff".

Go to municode and search "firearm" or a few other key terms, and you can read up on it.

http://library4.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=13974&doc_action=whatsnew

As for state laws, the carry laws are a bit less strict than Michigan, but if you follow MI rules in IN you'll be OK (that's pretty much the ISP interpretation).

For example, the MI license is for concealed carry. Indiana does not specify OC or CC, but since the MI license specifies CC, then you must CC in IN.
 
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Weapons Capacity?
Q: I have heard that there is a ban on high capacity pistol magazines in the city of South Bend. As a concealed carry permit holder, I feel it is necessary to know for sure. Is it unlawful to carry a pistol with a high capacity (greater than ten rounds) magazine within SB city limits?

A: The former "Brady Bill" banned high capacity magazines but that law has since expired and high capacity magazines are no longer banned federally or at the city level.

Source
Certainly not legal advice, but somewhat reliable; especially considering it is coming from the SBPD.
 
Thanks for the link, ServiceSoon. If that is the case then they need to repeal their city ordinance, because it is still on the books.

I know of an individual who recently could not buy the gun/accessory he was looking at (can't remember which) who was denied because he is a resident of South Bend. I shall continue my investigation...
 
It is long but here is the South Bend Code. You can view it here if you wish
http://library4.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=13974&doc_action=whatsnew

Sec. 13-95. Definitions.
The following definitions shall apply throughout this Article:
(a) Ammunition shall mean any ammunition cartridge, shell or other device containing explosive or incendiary material and designed and intended for use in any firearm.
(b) Assault Weapons shall mean and include:
(1) Any center fire rifle with automatic action or semi-automatic action or revolving cylinder weapon, or carbine which accepts a detachable magazine with a capacity of over fifteen (15) rounds;
(2) Any semiautomatic shotgun with a magazine capacity of more than nine (9) rounds;
(3) Firearms as defined in IC 35-47-1-5, which have threads, lugs, or other characteristics which are designed to facilitate the direct attachment of a silencer, bayonet, grenade launcher, flash suppressor, or folding stock to the firearm; and
(4) Any part or combination of parts designed to facilitate the attachment of a silencer, bayonet, grenade launcher, flash suppressor, or folding stock to a firearm; and
(5) A detachable magazine, drum, belt, feed strip, or similar device which has a capacity of, or can be readily restored or converted to accept more than fifteen (15) rounds of ammunition; and
(6) Any combination of parts which are designed and intended solely and exclusively for assembling a firearm defined to be an assault weapon as defined above, or from which an assault weapon could be assembled into an operable assault weapon if such parts are located in the possession or under the control of one (l) person.
(c) Automatic shall describe the mechanically self-acting of a weapon in which the spent cartridge is ejected, and the weapon reloaded and fired, by the action of the gas generated in firing or by the force of the recoil, resulting in the weapon continuing to fire as long as the trigger is depressed.
(d) Chambered shall mean ready to fire.
(e) Community Correction Officer shall mean any person employed by a governmental agency to oversee individuals who are in custody for alleged violation or convicted of a violation of the law.
(f) Dealer shall have the meaning set forth in IC 35-47-1-3.
(g) Firearms shall have the meaning set forth in IC 35-47-1-5.
(h) Magazine shall mean a storage place for ammunition which acts as a receptacle for cartridges which are to be fed into the breech or chamber of a rifle, shotgun, or other weapon.
(i) Minor shall mean any person who is under eighteen (18) years of age.
(j) Person shall mean any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, club or society.
(k) Rifle shall mean a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and usually fired from the shoulder which has spiral grooves cut in the bore to use the energy of ammunition.
(l) Secured shall mean out of reach and in a safe condition.
(m) Security guard services shall mean an entity or individual that engages in the business of providing security guard service to the public for hire.
(n) Semi-automatic shall mean any weapon which fires a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger and which employs a magazine.
(o) Shooting or firing range shall mean a place for target practice with firearms.
(p) Shotgun shall have the meanings set forth in IC 35-47-1-11.
(Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94)

Sec. 13-96. Exceptions.
(a) This division shall not apply to any person listed as an "excepted person" in IC 35-47-2-2; individuals regulated and approved by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF); community correction officers, and individuals properly licensed or authorized by a BATF stamp to use such weapons in a City licensed shooting or firing range properly equipped and zoned for the use of such weapons. Such individuals shall be required to provide valid proof of their status as an exception to this Division upon reasonable request.
(b) The definition of "assault weapon" as set forth in Section 13-91 shall not include any of the following:
(1) Weapons that do not use fixed ammunition, weapons that were in production prior to 1898, manually operated bolt-action weapons, lever-action weapons, slide-action weapons, single-shot weapons, semi-automatic weapons which use exclusively manalicher-style clips semi-automatic weapons manufactured prior to 1954, and rim-fire weapons that employee a tubular magazine.
(2) Any antique or relic firearm;
(3) Any assault weapon which has been modified either to render it permanently inoperable or to permanently make it a device no longer defined as an assault weapon.
(c) Any assault weapon may be possessed by any federal, state, county or local historical society, museum or educational institution of higher learning which is open to the public, provided such assault weapon is properly housed and secured from unauthorized handling and is always kept unloaded.
(Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94)

Sec. 13-97. Restrictions on the possession and manufacturing of assault weapons.
(a) No person may manufacture any assault weapon, as defined herein, within the City of South Bend.
(b) No person may possess any loaded assault weapon, as defined herein, within the City of South Bend, except as specifically provided herein.
(c) No person may manufacture or possess any magazine with a capacity of more than fifteen (15) rounds for assault weapons within the City of South Bend, except as specifically provided herein.
(Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94)

Sec. 13-98. Requirements for transporting and possessing unloaded assault weapons.
(a) Any person who owns any assault weapon as defined herein must:
(1) Keep a flag safety (i.e., plastic tie or chamber plug) properly in place so that the chamber is plugged resulting in the firing pin being blocked at all times;
(2) Keep said assault weapon unloaded at all times; and
(3) Keep said assault weapon in a gun slip, glove, or case so that it is inoperable and secured at all times with a gun tie or padlock;
except when using such weapon at a City licensed shooting or firing range as specifically provided herein.
(b) Any person who owns any assault weapon must keep all of its ammunition and magazines separate from the assault weapon, and in a secured container, except as specifically provided herein.
(Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94)

Sec. 13-99. Penalties; confiscation and destruction of assault weapons.
(a) Any person who violates any of the provisions of this Division shall be fined a minimum of two hundred and fifty dollars ($250.00) and up to a maximum of two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500.00) for each and every violation.
(b) The owner of an assault weapon found with a seated magazine shall be fined two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00), and if a round is chambered an additional one hundred dollars ($100.00) shall be assessed for each round in the chamber and the magazine.
(c) Any loaded assault weapon or weapons, and/or any magazine with a capacity of more than fifteen (15) rounds found in violation of this division shall be seized and confiscated.
(d) Additionally, any person found in violation of this division shall be required to attend and successfully complete a minimum of two (2) educational seminars on firearms safety and perform a minimum of twenty (20) hours of community service for each violation. Said seminars shall be conducted by the South Bend Police Department and/or the City's duly authorized agent.
(e) Penalties up to a total of two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500.00) for all citations, seminar fees and fines may be imposed upon an adult when found in violation of this division for each and every violation.
(Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94)
Secs. 13-100, 13-101. Reserved.

DIVISION 2. ACCESS TO FIREARMS BY MINORS PROHIBITED

Sec. 13-102. Public policy and findings of the Council.
(a) Negligently stored firearms and ammunition, which enable minors to gain access to them, is irresponsible behavior which encourages accidents.
(b) The Council believes that such irresponsible conduct by adult citizens should be prohibited, and that appropriate penalties should be imposed for corrective action.
(Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94)

Sec. 13-103. Definitions.
The definitions set forth in Division I of this Article, where applicable, shall be binding on the interpretation and enforcement of this division.
(Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94)

Sec. 13-104. Parent and legal guardian required to properly store firearms/ammunition; dealers to conspicuously display signs. *

__________
*Editor's note: Reference: The National Rifle Association programs include firearms safety instruction and the "Eddie Eagle" education program for "gun-proofing" children. Information can be provided by contacting NRA Education and Training Division at (202) 828-6283.

__________
(a) No person, including but not limited to parent(s) or legal guardian(s), shall store, leave, or give a loaded or unloaded firearm(s) and ammunition used by such firearm(s) in any place where the person knows, or reasonably should know based on the totality of the circumstances, that a minor is able to gain access to such firearm(s) and/or ammunition.
(b) All persons purchasing firearm(s) within the city, must provide written proof that he or she has successfully completed a National Rifle Association (or comparable agency) firearms safety instruction program on the proper use and storage of such firearm(s). Written proof of such training must be turned into the front desk of the South Bend Police Department within sixty (60) days from the date of said purchase.
(c) Any licensed firearm dealer doing business in the city must conspicuously post, at every purchase counter in every store, shop, or sales outlet, signs with the following warning in block letters not less than one (1) inch in height:
"IT IS A VIOLATION OF CITY OF SOUTH BEND CODE § 13-100 TO STORE OR LEAVE A FIREARM AND AMMUNITION WHERE CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF EIGHTEEN (18) YEARS OF AGE CAN OBTAIN ACCESS."
"ALL PERSONS PURCHASING FIREARMS ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE TO THE SOUTH BEND POLICE DEPARTMENT WRITTEN PROOF OF SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETING AN APPROVED FIREARMS SAFETY INSTRUCTION SESSION ON THE PROPER USE AND STORAGE OF SUCH FIREARMS WITHIN SIXTY (60) DAYS OF DATE OF PURCHASE."
Such warnings shall also be distributed by such licensed firearm dealer to each firearm purchaser at the time of the sale of a firearm.
(d) This section shall not apply when:
(1) A minor's access to a firearm and its ammunition is under the supervision or control of a responsible adult for purposes of lawful hunting or instruction in firearms safety, care, handling, or marksmanship;
(2) A minor has access to a firearm and its ammunition as a result of an unlawful entry into the place in which the firearm was found;
(3) A minor obtains a firearm and its ammunition in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person or persons within a domicile; or
(4) A minor, without permission of the lawful possessor of a firearm and its ammunition, obtains the firearm from the possessor's body, when the possessor is unable to prevent the removal of said firearm from his or her person.
(Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94)

Sec. 13-105. Penalties/citations/educational training sessions required for parents, guardians, dealers and minors found in violation.
(a) Any parent or guardian whose firearm gets in the wrongful possession of a minor shall be considered in violation of this division. Said parent or guardian shall be issued an ordinance violation citation with a fine of one hundred dollars ($100.00) for each offense, and said firearm shall be confiscated.
(b) Any person who fails to provide written proof that he or she has successfully completed a National Rifle Association (or comparable agency) approved firearms safety instruction program on the proper use and storage of such firearm(s) required by Section 13-100 shall be considered in violation of this division. An ordinance violation citation shall be issued with a fine of fifty dollars ($50.00), and the firearm shall be confiscated. Citations shall contain the date, time, name, and address of the violator, the Code section violated, the nature of the violation, location of the violation, and the name of the person issuing the citation. The citation shall have instructions thereon as to the disposition of the citation. Firearms confiscated under this paragraph shall be returned to the owner only upon said owner showing proof that he or she is the lawful owner and that said person has since successfully completed a National Rifle Association (or comparable agency) on firearms safety instruction program addressing the proper use and storage of firearms.
(c) Any licensed firearm dealer who fails to properly display the signs required in Section 13-100 shall be considered in violation of that section. Each day and each location required to have such signage which is not in compliance with Section 13-100, shall be considered a separate offense for which a separate citation may be issued. Said licensed firearm dealer shall be issued an ordinance violation citation with fines of twenty-five dollars ($25.00) for the first violation, and fifty dollar ($50.00) fines for all subsequent violations. Citations shall contain the date, time, name, and address of the violator, the Code section violated, the nature of the violation, location of the violation, and the name of the person issuing the citation. The citation shall have instructions thereon as to the disposition of the citation.
(d) In addition to adult violators being issued ordinance violation citation(s), any such person found in violation of this division shall be required to attend and successfully complete a minimum of two (2) educational seminars on firearms safety and perform a minimum of twenty (20) hours of community service for each violation. Said seminars shall be conducted by the South Bend Police Department and/or the City's duly authorized agent. All costs related to said seminars shall be paid by the violator.
(e) Any firearm, found in the possession of a minor, shall be confiscated, and the South Bend Police Department shall be immediately contacted. Said minor shall be required to attend and successfully complete a minimum of two (2) educational seminars specifically focusing on minors and safety awareness. Said seminars shall be conducted by the South Bend Police Department and/or the City's duly authorized agent. All costs related to said safety awareness seminars shall be paid by said minor's parent(s) or guardian(s). Additionally, said minor shall be required to write, in his or her own handwriting, a minimum of a two-page report on safety awareness and perform a minimum of twenty (20) hours of community service for each violation, with credit being given against the community service hours for reports deemed acceptable by the department of the City's agent. Said report must be turned into the principal of the minor's school within seventy-two (72) hours of successfully completing the last seminar. Copies of such reports with the name of the minor being held confidential, shall be sent to the Common Council's Health and Public Safety Committee on the last business day of the month when said seminar was held. Quarterly Committee reports shall be given on the progress of such youth educational safety awareness seminars.
(f) Penalties up to a total of two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500.00) for all citations, seminar fees and fines may be imposed upon an adult when found in violation of this division for each and every violation.
(Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94)
 
OK!!! Some good new here!

After more reasearch on the ingunowners.com forums, I think I have found a reliable answer.

The Indiana law that preempts local governments from making their own gun laws says that any local laws that go into effect AFTER 01/01/1994 are invalid.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch11.html

From the post above, you can see that the South Bend city ordinances are dated 02/21/1994.

Knowing this, the blog reply above (in ServiceSoon's post) seems disingenuous.
 
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Is it me or does South Bend sound like its too close to Illinois? Glad I don't
get up to South Bend much anymore because now I'm confused !!!!
 
OK!!! Some good new here!

After more reasearch on the ingunowners.com forums, I think I have found a reliable answer.

The Indiana law that preempts local governments from making their own gun laws says that any local laws that go into effect AFTER 01/01/1994 are invalid.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch11.html

From the post above, you can see that the South Bend city ordinances are dated 02/21/1994.

Knowing this, the blog reply above seems disingenuous.


That's mighty harsh criticism of someone who's helped many gunowners with much information and guidance on his website.

Edit add:

Or was the comment meant for servicesoon's post?
 
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I haven't added this to the Indiana Page at www.handgunlaw.us yet. I have the same concerns you do about state preemption and South Bends code. But they really don't ban any firearms in some of the paragraphs. They ban how big a mag you can have. You can buy so called assult weapons and have them in your home and transport them in your vehicle. Their code talks about how much ammo they can hold. Now they do ban some types of firearms which leads me to believe that part if not all of their code is null and void.

But I see (Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94) at the bottom of the different sections and am wondering if they just changed the numbering system for their code and that the Ord was actually in effect before that date and that 2-21-94 was just the date they changed the numbering system of their code. It could aslo be that the numbering system (Ord. No. 8468-94, § 1, 2-21-94) is the number of the ord as introduced for them to vote on and that the date is the date is was adopted and not just a change in the numbering system. I am looking further also.

But if their code is valid this is very important information to get out to those who live and travel in South Bend. Any assistance anyone can give about this would be greatly appreciated. Please email me at [email protected] if you have any info. I may not see it posted here. I watch a lot of boards. Thanks and
 
Knowing this, the blog reply above seems disingenuous.

That's mighty harsh criticism of someone who's helped many gunowners with much information and guidance on his website.

Edit add:

Or was the comment meant for servicesoon's post?

Yes, it was referring to the SBPD blog post in ServiceSoon's post. Post edited for clarity.

My apologies to anyone I offended.
 
@ Gary Slider,

Please visit these forum posts:

http://ingunowners.com/forums/gener...3-re_south_bend_high_capacity_ordinances.html

A thread which I started to investigate a bit more. The post by PMY includes and invitation to contact him regarding this topic. I don't know who he is, but might help your investigation. I will PM him and ask that he contact you.

Also... the thread that started it all...

http://ingunowners.com/forums/the_2nd_amendment/71535-south_bend_in.html

In post #47, made by someone who is a lawyer (AFAIK), stated the ordinance is void.
 
Thanks Kludge. I recieved a PM.

It looks like the South Bend Code is Null and Void. But still gathering some more info. I had never heard of this so called South Bend ban on mags holding more than 15 rounds in my 15+ years of researching gun laws in the states. But I have been surprised before. But from all that I have read and people that I have heard from the law is still on the books but is not enforcable. Laws still on the books but voided by other laws is more common that we think.
 
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