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Inexpensive night vision or game cam

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Victor1Echo

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Oct 21, 2009
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I have always wanted some night vision device, and all the reports I've read discourage me from buying one that I can afford. Big five has about three models they sell and they are on less expensive side. I just want an aid in scouting for game. There are a few areas not far from me where I would like to set up a tree stand on a nearly full moon and just watch nature. Or would it be better just to put up a game cam in the areas I want to hunt?
 
Game cams use a flash, so night is no problem. I bought one at Wally's for around $60, and it works okay.

For actual night vision (scope, anyhow), I wouldn't go for anything less than a Generation 2+, and they cost around $2,000.
 
Game cams are on duty 24/7/365 and will give you a clearer picture of game than obtainable thru cheap NV.
 
For scouting game, you are better off with game cameras. You can get those with a normal flash or those with an IR 'flash' that doesn't spook the animals. Animals will get used to the regular flash and the regular flash will produce proper color night time pics that the IR flash won't as they are b&w and of a lower resolution (at least on the cams I have used).

If you want to go with an inexpensive NV scope for scouting, Art's suggestion is that what you want really doesn't match your wallet. He is right. Ideally a Gen II+ would be where you might want to start. You can get by with a Gen I+ scope (I am not sure too many places still carry actual Gen I only as most are modified), but you need a supplemental IR illuminator to make the scope function properly for your needs.

Yes, the scope will probably come with a built in IR illuminator, but generally speaking, the built in illuminators tend to be inferior to after market options available to you.

There are some reasonably inexpensive IR illuminators, but most are in the 900-940nm range which works great for Gen II or better NV scopes, but not so well for Gen I scopes. You need an illuminator closer to 800 nm. These are harder to find. For about $20, you can find a 940 nm P60-sized drop-in for flashlights that are the same size and power as the Surefire P60 and turn your flashlight into a nifty 70-100 yard IR flood illuminator. There are a lot of makes and models that are based on the P60 size and that are very inexpensive compared to Surefire. The trick is finding a 800nm drop-in for Gen I, however. I have seen them advertised, but have yet to find a vendor that actually has them.

Having an IR illuminator to go with the Gen II+ scopes also makes a huge difference in what you can see, how clearly, and how far.

There are a few areas not far from me where I would like to set up a tree stand on a nearly full moon and just watch nature.
If you don't mind limiting yourself to the few days where you have nearly full and full moons, then maybe that is a good way to go. However, you will find that even during full moons night vision can be very handy dandy. It still gets plenty dark under the tree canopy even during a full moon.

This guy's voice keeps saying, "Instead of buying NV or a game camera, spend another $120 and you get a Pardner." Well, I'm going to check it out.

Well, you will have a new shotgun, but you will still have the same scouting problems. The shotgun won't help you with that area.
 
I went to Big5 and the one closest to me (100 miles), and they did not have the shotgun. They did have an annoying clerk who was talking on endlessly about how great his Mosin was with another jack ass of a clown customer:fire:. So I went to a few guns shops and found the same shotgun for $70 bucks more. It was enough not to buy it. I also just decided to get a trail cam, but I will go to Bass Pro next week and check them out. No to Night vision.
 
For actual night vision (scope, anyhow), I wouldn't go for anything less than a Generation 2+, and they cost around $2,000.

I have been very happy with my ATN Mk390 Paladin ("Gen I plus" 4x). IIRC, I paid $530 delivered from Cal's. On a really bright night, I can easily see coyotes at 250+ yards. On a no-moon night, the included IR illuminator is good to about 120 yards for positive ID on a critter. The image was much clearer than I'd expected from a Gen I scope. I hear the Luna optics gen I scopes are a little better, but they only have 2 IR settings and cost about $300 more than the ATN.

I'd love to have a Gen II (or III), but it wasn't in the budget. The Mk 390 allows me to eliminate these nuisance critters very effectively, and didn't break the bank. I also move it over to my 673 .350 Mag for hog hunting, and it has worked beautifully for that.
 
I don't know what I'm missing here, and I know it's a tangent, but how does someone in the market for a game cam get convinced to buy a shotgun instead? That's like leaving the house dead-set on buying a new couch, and coming home convinced that what you really need is a new pair of shoes.

I wouldn't bother asking, if it weren't the OP who went in the whole other direction in the first place. I'm genuinely interested in reading how this happened.
 
I wouldn't bother asking, if it weren't the OP who went in the whole other direction in the first place. I'm genuinely interested in reading how this happened.

I suspect it's based on the (deeply flawed) concept that you don't really need to aim a shotgun, and by extension of principle, don't really need to be able to see the target, either.

Just my WAG.
 
I don't know what I'm missing here, and I know it's a tangent, but how does someone in the market for a game cam get convinced to buy a shotgun instead? That's like leaving the house dead-set on buying a new couch, and coming home convinced that what you really need is a new pair of shoes.

I suspect it's based on the (deeply flawed) concept that you don't really need to aim a shotgun, and by extension of principle, don't really need to be able to see the target, either.

Just my WAG.


That or he has some monies burnin' a hole in his pocket. Either way, his monies, his choice.
 
For actual night vision (scope, anyhow), I wouldn't go for anything less than a Generation 2+, and they cost around $2,000.

This is why I still have a red spotlight mount on my scope. :D However, if I get into hog hunting at night in the future, I may buy me one of those green lasers that cost a couple hundred bucks, supposed to be a lot better. They're rechargeable and I don't have to carry a 6v battery on my belt with a wire, old school. I got mine 40 years ago. :rolleyes: It works to maybe 50 yards which is all I need sitting and watching a feeder, but those green lasers are supposed to work to 300 or some such.
 
The only hunting tag I could get that I was in an area I wanted to hunt (California x9 b or c--Eastern Sierras and Inyo/white mountains) was for archery. On top of that the success rate is 6%, add my novice newbie no experience to that you can plainly see it will be tough. The one thing I have going for me is that I am hunting in my backyard, and I am on vacation until school/work starts up again--the day before the opener. So I was looking for something that could aid me in scouting. I have always wanted a night vision device, purely the kid in me--maybe more of an adult toy. The trail cam would far more useful, but only in identifying specific animals-- I can just as well look for tracks droppings, to find the deer- so even the trail cam seemed like a toy to me. So when I saw the shotgun on sale in Big 5's ad, I thought that it was far more practical than either of the devices.

I don't know what I'm missing here, and I know it's a tangent, but how does someone in the market for a game cam get convinced to buy a shotgun instead? That's like leaving the house dead-set on buying a new couch, and coming home convinced that what you really need is a new pair of shoes.

I really did laugh out loud at that. I have been wanting a home defense shotgun for a while and was going to buy one this month--as I only get paid once a month. Then I had to get some archery equipment which used the money I was going to spend on the shotgun. Then I sold a pop up trailer I had, and decided to parley that cash into a game cam or NV. Then I saw the ad for the shotgun. It piqued my interest, so I read about it, and now I am waiting ten days to go pick up my Chinese 870. I looked at a few game cams and decided that I would pick one or two up next month on-line.

So there ya go.
 
Game cams can be very useful as hunting/scouting tools. I'm not sure night vision is much for scouting, but night hunting hogs is legal here. Night vision makes it easier, but the cheap stuff is worthless or so I'm told. I ain't much for a night guy, anyway. I worked too much shift work in my day and don't like staying up late, so it's really low priority for me, anyhow.
 
I have always wanted some night vision device, and all the reports I've read discourage me from buying one that I can afford. Big five has about three models they sell and they are on less expensive side. I just want an aid in scouting for game. There are a few areas not far from me where I would like to set up a tree stand on a nearly full moon and just watch nature. Or would it be better just to put up a game cam in the areas I want to hunt?
RECONYX™ HyperFire™ Scouting Cameras, See What You’ve Been Missing…






Product Warranty

2 years



Operating Temperature

-40° to +140° Fahrenheit



Illumination

Lo-Glow™ Semi-Covert IR



Flash Range

Up to 70 feet



Mapping & Image Management Software

MapView™ Professional with Configuration Software



Image Resolution

3.1 Mega-pixel or 1080P High Definition



Image Detail

Color by Day, Monochrome Infrared by Night



Trigger Speed

1/5th second



RapidFire™ Near-Video Speed

Up to 2 frames per second



Memory Card Type

Secure Digital (SD® or SDHC®)



Memory Card Capacity

Up to 32GB (4GB = approx. 10,000 images)



Image Data

Time, Date, Temperature & Moon Phase



Battery Life

Up to 40,000 images



Battery Requirements

Alkaline, NiMH Rechargeable or 1.5volt Lithium



Battery Quantity / Size

12 AA



Theft Deterrence

CodeLoc™ Pass-Code Protection




MSRP

$549.99

You could own two or three of these for what one decent Gen2+ night scope will set you back.
 
It is very true with night vision that you get what you pay for.
(NOT recommended) however if you did purchase night vision equipment that is not generation 3 you are extremely dependent on your environment: Dry / humid environment, full moon / no moon, cloud cover, terrain etc.
If you cannot afford a generation 3 pvs-14; i would pursue the alternative - game cam's.
Some of our customers have gone pig hunting in Texas with their friends. They ended up letting their friends use their Gen 3 night vision because they could not see pigs a couple hundred yards in front of them when they were using their gen 1 / gen 2.
 
It is very true with night vision that you get what you pay for.
(NOT recommended) however if you did purchase night vision equipment that is not generation 3 you are extremely dependent on your environment: Dry / humid environment, full moon / no moon, cloud cover, terrain etc.
If you cannot afford a generation 3 pvs-14; i would pursue the alternative - game cam's.
Some of our customers have gone pig hunting in Texas with their friends. They ended up letting their friends use their Gen 3 night vision because they could not see pigs a couple hundred yards in front of them when they were using their gen 1 / gen 2.

Seriously? Gimme a break. Gen I scopes are a very economical way to get into night time predator/pest hunting, and they work just fine if you don't have Gen III expectations out of a $600 scope. As I said above, I can easily tell the difference between a coyote and a similar size spitz breed dog out to at least 120 yards on the darkest of nights using the IR illuminator that was included with my Mk390. I can detect movement and approximate animal size out to about 300 yards, further with a bright moon.

If I'd have gone with your advice, I'd still be saving for a scope while the coyotes run rampant, and still be using a light on the Texas piggies, which gives you about 1/2 second to get a shot off.

Hunting animals does not require the image clarity of identifying individual people's faces, as our military elite needs to do with their NV. If you're needing 200+ yard photo quality capability out of your NV for hunting, your problem isn't the optic-it's your skills. Learn how to call those predators in closer.
 
Yeah, I gotta agree. There is plenty you can do with NV gear less than Gen 3. With supplemental IR light, you can get a LOT of distance out of Gen 1 and Gen II scopes.

however if you did purchase night vision equipment that is not generation 3 you are extremely dependent on your environment: Dry / humid environment, full moon / no moon, cloud cover, terrain etc.

LOL, Gen 3 is affected by all those things as well about equally proportional to the other generations, but losing 20% off 1250 yards for Gen 3 translates losing 20% off of 1000 yards for Gen 2. So higher generation NV is affected about the same, but it has greater capabilities to start with, generally speaking. I have handled some Gen 2+ gear that was better than Gen 3. So it really isn't all that simple as saying Gen 3 is better than Gen 2. There is a lot of variety between makes, models, and capabilities and some real overlap.

Here is a neat comparison of 5 models.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/329958_Night_Vision_Generation_Comparison_Guide.html

What is interesting to note is that the subject at 100 yards in the test was pretty well unrecognizable regardless of the generation without supplemental IR illumination. Adding IR helped all of them and some of the lower gen stuff was almost useless in the conditions without the supplemental IR. So as in this circumstance, if you are going to have to add supplemental IR to see your target anyway, do you really need to spend $2-3 grand more for the higher end scope? It will depend on the user's needs.

I supplement my Gen 1+ and Gen 2+ with long range IR illuminators. I can distinguish goats from deer from pigs at 200 yards with my Gen 1+ scope and the long range illuminator. For my situation, that is more than adequate. On my property, there are few places I can even see that far in daylight because of topography and foliage.

Having a good Gen 3 scope would be great, but the notion of go big or go home (don't bother) when it comes to night vision is pretty silly. It is sort of like saying that if your hunting rifle won't achieve a certain level of accuracy, say sub MOA, then you should not be using the rifle. There should be no reason to dissuade a potential night hunter from getting a less optimal and much less expensive unit so long as that hunter understands what he can do with the gear. In my experience, this is where most of the NV companies fail. Reading the ads, you get the impression that just about everything they offer is great, but that some products are just more great.

Personally, I find it a shame that there isn't some NV superstore where customers can come in and try various makes and models of NV gear in an outdoor environment. I would be willing to bet that if folks understood their options better, a lot more night vision gear would be sold. As it stands, they are left with usualy buying based on specs, based on reviews, and maybe even based on limited use of somebody else's gear. Unless they buy the exact same model as their buddy, chances are that they do not really know the capabilities and shortcomings of the NV scope they are purchasing and how well it may fit their situation.
 
I have tried out more cheap NVDs (<$1000) than I would like to admit. None of them held any advantage to a good scope and spotlight. One thing I did was to put landscape lights out by feeders, the animals get used to the light going hand in hand with the food and now you don't need the spotlight by the feeders.

Game cameras are a bit better than tracks as letting you see what was there but only real usefull to show others what you didn't get.

After I grew tired of seeing photos of the animals at the locations I was not hunting I changed my tactics. I took 12v dc motion sensors for alarm systems, old police bad radios, a digital voice recorder and other bits and pieces and made game radios that would alert me to movement at the various locations we have baited. Makes it like fish in a barrel, as long as you stalk quitely.


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Did they have dead batteries in those NV units???

Seriously, The Gen II+ images posted were far worse that what I see through my Gen I+. I have no first-hand experience with any of those models, but if I bought a Gen II+ or Gen III that worked so poorly, I'd be livid.

I dunno, maybe it's his camera trying to take pictures through a NV optic, but I can't imagine any of the optics "tested" work so poorly.

I'll try to take pictures through my Paladin some time, see if it does it any justice. I wouldn't put any stock in that comparison thread.
 
After I grew tired of seeing photos of the animals at the locations I was not hunting I changed my tactics. I took 12v dc motion sensors for alarm systems, old police bad radios, a digital voice recorder and other bits and pieces and made game radios that would alert me to movement at the various locations we have baited. Makes it like fish in a barrel, as long as you stalk quitely.
I love it! I am all tapped out on funds for toys, but I got a nice look at some game cams at bass pros. I will pick one up next month, by then I should have a few places I'll want to post it. I may even buy a NV too. I will not have super high expectations.
 
The thing game cams can do for you is pattern game before season so that you'll know where they are and when on their routines day to day. You see hogs coming to your feeder at 10PM multiple nights? Be there at nine and wait. Saves a lot of stand time. Hogs can get into habits.

The hogs are just an example. I've placed a game cam on what looked like a great hog trail just to verify when they were there and that they were there before placing a trap there. Turned out to be a great trap location. I'd figured that, anyway, but the game cam verified it for me. I've kept the trap there, great location and has been successful for several years.

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The thing game cams can do for you is pattern game before season so that you'll know where they are and when on their routines day to day.
That was my problem the hogs were tearing up a different medow up every night and just were not consistant enough. The mix up in routine also could have been from hunting pressure though.
 
Would the US Forest service have a problem with me putting a feeder out, as I do most of my hunting in National Forests and wilderness areas?
 
Would the US Forest service have a problem with me putting a feeder out, as I do most of my hunting in National Forests and wilderness areas?
Yes they would, at least up here in NW Wisconsin they do. Until very recently, it was even illegal to set camera traps on state forest land overnight! Feeding deer can be illegal too, up here legality varies from zone to zone. Check with your local wildlife enforcement agency first.
 
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