Interesting S&W 357

[mike45]

An old frined of mine told me he had an old pre 27 smith for sale. I told him I was looking for one and agreed to stop by his house.

He showed me a Smith and said he got it from someone who worked security at Oak Ridge after the war. He carried it as a police officer early in his career and had to use is on one occasion to subdue a violent subject by hitting them in the head.

He told me it was a pre-numbered 27. I looked at it for about 2 minutes to see that the top strap was not checkered, the cylinder was not countersunk and on closer inspection the cylinder holes were bored out from .38 to .358 length. There was a small piece of a rear sight assembly cut off to fill in the space between the barrel and frame. (cylinder, extractor, and frame all with the same serial numbe. 3.5 inch barrel has a different ser. number of course)

Looks like an old 38/44 bored out to accomidate a 357. A fairly competent machinest did some work on it about 40 years ago but did not know how to fit the barrel to the frame... there is about .022 barrel to cylinder gap.

I gave him the $350 he wanted because he was a tough old cop and is a good friend. I know it has no collector value but it's an interesting old piece.


mike

 

[Mike Irwin]

What's the serial number and I can tell you when it was made.

 

[SnWnMe]

Pretty unusual gun. Are you going to let us know how it shoots after the local gunsmith gives it a clean bill of health?

 

[J.M.]

I believe that S&W called that the "Outdoorsman" - a 38/44 heavy duty with adjustable sights.

I'm no Smith expert, and I don't have the resources to check, but I believe that's correct.

I also believe that Hamilton Bowen is currently looking for these for .44 slp conversions - especially adjustable sighted models! So it's not totally without value - either cash, or trade for services.

(I love shooting those old Smiths - have fun) - JM.

 

[Jim K]

The .38/44 (.38 on a .44 frame) was a pretty good gun. They made them in two versions, the Heavy Duty with fixed sights and the Outdoorsman with adjustable sights. That was the gun used to work up what ultimately became the .357 Magnum, but S&W used different heat treatment in the Magnums so the guns would stand up to the higher pressure.

If the barrel is marked .357, it was put in the .38/44 frame and would naturally be too short. I don't know what was done to fill the gap (a piece of rear sight!!??). but I would not trust it.

Gun Parts Corp. (www.gunpartscorp.com) lists original barrels for that frame and says to specify caliber; they run $89. A call or letter to S&W might also find if they have barrels and if so cost of barrel and installation. The cylinder should be OK; the chambering for .357 should not matter, but I would not fire anything but .38 Special in it.

The cost of the barrel, plus what you already have in the gun could run over the value of the gun, but it would at least be shootable. As is, I would not want to shoot it.

Jim

 

[seeker_two]

I'm with Jim Keenan on this one. It looks like a "Bubba Special" conversion to .357Mag. It MIGHT be OK to shoot w/ .38Spl's, but I wouldn't be the one to recommend or try it.

However, if you got it cheap enough, it would be a good candidate for a custom gun. Hamilton Bowen or Gary Reeder could probably do a .44SPL or .45ACP conversion on it. Something low-pressure. It would cost, but you would have a great shooter...

 

[Old Fuff]

As Mike said, the first thing too do is identify exactly what you have, and that will take a partial serial number (on the gun's butt) and maybe some pictures.

Jim is right in saying that Numrich/The Parts Corporation have barrels, both for the pre-war "pencil barreled" revolvers and also the latter post-war ribbed kind. It is quite possible the gun can be put back into shooting shape, and there is no reason you can't shoot .38 Special and REDUCED .357 handloads in it.

Unfortunately this kind of "conversion" isn't rare. Among others I once saw a S&W model 14 (K-38 Target Masterpiece) that had been changed to a .357 Magnum (!!?) by replacing the barrel with one from a model 13 (4 inch .357 with fixed sight). Obviously this wasn't a shooter, nor a Magnum.

 

[mike45]

The serial number is S 73963. So I figre post war, sometime in the 50's.

I'm aware that it was probably a converted 38/44. (I also own a Heavy Duty) I'm not really interested in converting it to 44 or 45acp at this time, I just thought it was kind of interesting what someone went through to attain a gun that looked like a 3.5 inch 357 magnum.

The person who did the work really didn't butcher anything and my friend carried it and shot it with .357 rounds for years with no problem. The chambers were bored out about an additional 1/10 th inch. The lockup is good on each chamber.

I would not have a problem shooting 357 in it but I tend to shoot only 38 specials in my guns... even the super strong Ruger single action.

Interestingly, I saw the same sort of thing once before. about 10 years ago a dealer told me he had an early model Colt Python. I looked at the gun and said nope, you have a trooper with a python barrel screwed on.

I'll attach another picture.

 

[mike45]

And another

 

[uglygun]

I think I'd use it towards making a target model 44spl clone or return it back to as close as possible to the original Outdoorsman configuration.

I've got a 5 screw 38/44 Outdoorsman and it's an absolutely wonderful gun.

 

[mike45]

Yea, you have a point Ugly, like i said, I have a 4 inch heavy duty 5 screw which I like very much. About the only kind of tinkering i am thinking about doing is putting a post war 38/44 outdoorsman barrel back on it. Of course I will not do that until I get tired of showing it to friends who are shooters and collectors.



mike

 

[uglygun]

Act fast... http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ listed an in the white 38/44 Outdoorsman 6 1/2 inch barrel in their misc. section of S&W parts.

 

[Old Fuff]

Mike:

Remove that little piece of metal in front of the rear sight and see if there is a groove underneith it. I think the gun may have originally been an early post-war .38/44 with fixed sights. Someone milled out the topstrap to take the post-war adjustable rear sight, but needed to cover the evidence in front of the sight.

The hammer has been modified to a wide spur, but it's the old long-action kind - I believe. Only a few thousand post-war .38/44's were made with the pre-war long action.

You may have a sleeper.

 

[mike45]

Thanks Fuff, I've been looking at it and comparing it to my post war 38/44 Heavy Duty and I have been suspecting that the sight was milled into the top strap of the revolver. There is a little bit of an uneven cut in the topstrap on the right side near the front screw.

Looks like it is a long action when I compare it to my (unmodified) post war 38-44 5 screw. Whatever the case, it is still such a pleasure to look at the craftmanship of these old guns. I like the transfer bar and coil spring for spring tension on the hand instead of the wire spring used later.

Mike

 

[mike45]

Another comparison with my 38-44 that has a serial number about 20,000 higher.

 

[Old Fuff]

Mike:

The higher serial numbered gun on the right in your picture has the post-war "short action." The gun on the left has an early post-war "long action" It should have (or can be made to have) an exceptionally smooth and light double-action trigger pull. The single-action pull between the two guns should be about the same.

During the late 1940's a lot of .38/44 revolvers were converted to .357 Magnum because true Magnums were in very short supply.

 

[mike45]

Thanks for the info Fuff.