Is 5x Too Much for AR15?

[HGM22]

I'm looking at the Primary Arms fixed 5x prism scope. At what ranges is this intended to be used?

Seems like home defense ranges would be too close unless it works as an occluded optical sight (if anyone knows more about this i.e. will it work with a 5x scope, it would be MUCH appreciated). Is this more of a 25 yards and out scope?

 

[MistWolf]

5x is too much magnification for an HD carbine

 

[Davek1977]

personally, I think, for a HD weapon, ANY magnification is too much. If I HAD to have such a weapon scoped, I'd probably opt for one the quality 1x4 scopes available, or most likely, a red dot sight of some sort. I routinely kill deer out to 300 yards with a 4x scope...I can't imagine ANYONE wanting a 5x scope on an HD carbine for any reason.....

 

[USAF_Vet]

A lot of military CQB optics are low magnification, like 1.5x or 2x.

5X is way too much for under 300 yards, IMO. I do have a 2-7 x 36 scope for my carbine, with mil-dot reticle. I don't have it currently mounted and simple use the iron sights for HD and anything under 100 yards.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

CMP Service rifle just changed the rules to allow up to a 4x scope, and they shoot to 600yd.

I've got a 4x version of that scope (which doesn't seem to be on their website anymore) and while you can focus on close in targets it would only work well as an occluded eye scope at HD ranges. I bought it in large part because of the elevation holdover points and wind hold references with the intent of mid-distance shooting out to 4 or 500 yd.

 

[bernie]

I use 5X magnification quite a bit on my AR's, but I am generally coyote shooting at 150+ yards. That is not a close range magnification.

 

[jmr40]

A 1-4X variable is about as good as it gets. Set on 1X it is faster than irons and 4X gives you all the magnification you need out to 300-400 yards.

 

[strambo]

For home defense the red dot sight rules. There is no comparison. RDS can be used effectively out to 3-400yds as well. I qualify annually with an M4/Aimpoint out to 300m.

Take a look at the Primary Arms MD-ADS, rugged, 5 yr battery life, reasonable cost. I also own an ACOG, but if I could only have 1 optic, it would be a high quality RDS, ideal for HD and SHTF, great for general combat (not that a civilian needs that).

 

[redneck2]

I was pronghorn hunting with a 6.5-20x40. At about 200 yards there was too much magnification to easily pick out a particular animal. Isn't that much difference between 5 and 6.5. So yeah. It's way too much for HD ranges.

As noted 1-4 or red dot would be the program. If you can swing the $$$ a holo is awesome

 

[yugorpk]

I use a 5X or higher for anything over 40 feet. To each his own I guess. I regularly shoot 12X at 50 yards.

How much aiming do you do in the dark for HD in your house? Point and shoot.

 

[1KPerDay]

For bench shooting, fine. For social work, 1x IMO.

 

[243winxb]

Colt made a 3 power scope for there M16A1. I liked mine, it had a knob to adjust for set yardages. Good to 300 yds.

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[/URL][/IMG] I think the iron sights could still be used? I forget.

 

[Hookeye]

My coyote AR wears a 2-7X.
My HD runs irons.

 

[strambo]

How much aiming do you do in the dark for HD in your house? Point and shoot.

If you have the right tool for the job, like a good RDS, for the same time it takes to point and shoot...you can aim also, in the dark.

 

[benEzra]

Is 5x Too Much for AR15?

I'm looking at the Primary Arms fixed 5x prism scope. At what ranges is this intended to be used?

5x is way too much for in-home distances, and would be exceedingly slow and out of focus at those distances. On the other hand, I like 6x or more for shooting at 200+ yards.

If your AR is solely a HD and under-100-yard gun, you would probably be better served with an unmagnified optic, like a Primary Arms red dot (on the budget end) or an Aimpoint PRO (on the high end). If you want it to fill the HD role *and* allow precision shots at 200 yards or more, you could go with an illuminated 1-4x or 1-6x variable, at the cost of more weight and more $$$.

 

[rjrivero]

Go with a 1-4 Variable.

The reason the popularity of 1-4 or 1-6 power variable scopes are on the rise is exactly this dilemma. Get yourself a descent variable low power scope and get exactly what you are looking for.

The Vortex PST 1-4 x 24 is a good lower cost option, as is their new less expensive Strike Eagle 1-6.

If you prefer the mil-hash type reticle, the 1-4 is where it's at. If you don't mind a drop reticle, the 1-6 would fit the bill for a little less money.

The 1-4 from Nikon is also a nice scope, as is the weaver equivalent.

 

[Lr_athlete32]

+1
Well said RJ, I personally had the same delema when deciding on an HD optic that could comfortably extend out to 600yds and decided on a leupold mark ar mod 1 1.5-4.

There was really no miracle feature that drew me away from any other (strike eagle) other than the fact that I'm a leupy guy and the mil/mil, spr reticle, and illumination fit my needs.

Ask yourself what is important to you, a red dot is great for torso sized targets 3-300yds out and many successfully shoot a lot further than that with great results. But if you want to take it out to 500yds and beyond every so often, you would be best suited with some magnifacation (and clear glass is more important)

Then again, you can have the best of both worlds with a high magnification scope and a mini red dot on a 45° mount for up close.

When buying glass, always remember that higher quality glass at a lower magnifacation can be bought for the same price as some higher magnifacation scopes using lower quality glass.

 

[benzy2]

First, do you keep the carbine bedside so that in the case someone is in the house at night, you can get to it ASAP? How about quickly accessible during day hours? Not that many don't, but a lot of people I see talking about using their rifle for home defense also keep it locked in a safe. My first thought would be, if the rifle isn't reachable in a HD situation, don't worry about buying an optic that is or isn't HD friendly.

Second, how do you plan to use this/any optic or sighting device should a HD situation come up? What if it's day time? What if it's night time? If it's night time, even if you can see a red dot can you identify what you're about to shoot?

There are a lot of people who have put time, thought, and training in to how to use a carbine for HD. So many other things than the specific optic used are more critical to survival that the question is a bit unimportant. I'm not one who has spent much time or energy on the subject but just enough to understand the basic bullet points. What I've found is that we worry way too much on specifics in the gear rather than the skills to not die. 5x is too much, but I'd rather have a carbine with a 5x scope on it loaded and in my hands than the perfect optic mounted on a rifle that's locked up in a safe with ammo in a different room.

If you're really interested in using the rifle for HD, take a HD class from a reputable instructor. You'll learn more in a weekend of class about what will keep you alive than you'll learn from a year of debating gear specs online.

 

[cdb1]

My AR does double duty as a coyote rifle and for HD. It has BUIS, a VX-R 2-7 and a Razor Red Dot with a QD riser.

 

[strambo]

HD is such a critical need I don't like to compromise on it. The ideal solution is a RDS in a QD mount and whatever magnified scope best suits you also in QD mount. Don't have to buy them both at once, get the RDS first, then save up for the other.

If you're really interested in using the rifle for HD, take a HD class from a reputable instructor. You'll learn more in a weekend of class about what will keep you alive than you'll learn from a year of debating gear specs online.

This times 10! At the carbine course I went to last year it was pretty funny. Guy had a cheapo RDS that didn't survive zeroing...the instructor gave him an old school fixed carry handle AR from the 90's to run the rest of the class with, it ran like a champ.

Irons, light, and training beats the best gear any day. The class I took's tuition was $365 for 2 days and ammo cost about $250-$300 so the cost of a decent optic and mount.

 

[AABEN]

I use 6x24-44 6x18-44 on 2 of my AR I use them for target and long range shooting. I like to drop varmints at long range. They think they are safe out there HO HO They are long range varmint AR one likes 61 Gr and the other likes 69 Gr They are 1/8 twist

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I've been shooting magnified sights with both eyes open for awhile now and always found it comfortable (on the dominant side at least) as long as the reticle provides good contrast with the target and background.

Despite that, for a long time I felt that 4x was about the maximum for close in use; however I've since been using a SWFA 1-6x on my 9" SBR (mostly because the mil/mil reticle and adjustment makes shooting different .300 BLK loads a lot simpler).

I've since discovered that I almost never use anything less than 6x even at close ranges. And honestly, with the good reticle and shooting both eyes open, I haven't found it to be much of a problem. Now my 7mm Mag has a fixed Swarovski 6x with a fine crosshair (traditional hunting reticle), and I do have a little more difficulty using that close in. YMMV.

 

[Jesse H]

Couple weeks ago we were hitting human sized steel at 400 yards with our AR's. Our team has a mix of carbines and SBR's, all with non magnified Eotechs or Aimpoints. Mind you these aren't precision shots, but it does show how far out one can go without magnification.