Is a Chrome Lined barrel on an AR really needed?

[FNFiveSeven]

It's definitely an apples to oranges comparison, Blackrazor, and you know it.

Not the way I see it. I guess I should have said, nobody makes a decent chrome lined barrel for the AR, since Krieger, Douglass, Hart, etc. don't do chrome lining. The bottom line is that if you want chrome lining, rest assured you're buying a poor quality barrel.

 

[Gewehr98]

A blanket assumption, if ever there was.

The bottom line is that if you want chrome lining, rest assured you're buying a poor quality barrel.

Bovine excrement. Just what is a poor quality barrel, in your humble opinion? One that doesn't meet benchrest 1/100" bughole target standards, or one that doesn't meet Mil-Spec issue standards? BTW, care to put your money where your mouth is? As stated previously, I have a Colt Competition HBAR (stands for Heavy Barrel) that's a one-holer at 100 yards. It's not a Krieger barrel, but I only shoot NRA High Power, I'm not popping prairie poodles with eyeball hits at 800 yards. Regardless, I'm certain I'm not the only one who has fired tight groups with chrome-lined barrels, be they from an AR-15/M16 or M14/M1A. Smith Enterprises is selling Uncle Sam a match-grade M14 barrel chambered for M118LR ammo, and the medium-weight barrels provided earlier by SAK for the M14 are considered some of the better ones out there for that platform. Guess what? The Smith Enterprises barrel and the older SAK medium-weight NM barrels are both chrome-lined.

Chrome lining a bad barrel doesn't make it shoot any better, but chrome lining a good barrel doesn't make it automatically go sour, either. Done properly, accuracy won't suffer and barrel life will be extended. Uncle Sam saw fit to include chrome lining on their USGI guns after the M1 Garand, for a reason. I've been issued M16A1 training rifles that had their throats torn up, even with chrome lining, so one has to wonder how many rounds it would've taken for a non chrome-lined M16 to show the same damage. That extra $40 per rifle for the chrome-lining of chamber and bore was probably a good return on Uncle Sam's investment, since they couldn't afford to spend taxpayer's dollars on stainless or Krieger/Obermeyer/Hart/Shilen barrels.

"Is a Krieger benchrest/varmint barrel on an AR really needed?"

There. Fixed the thread title.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

I have a Colt Competition HBAR (stands for Heavy Barrel) that's a one-holer at 100 yards.

Man, I don't know how many times I've heard stuff like this. I suppose some things never change. Every time I call somebody on a claim like this, all I get are a bunch of excuses why they can't shoot what they said they could. EVERY TIME. Oh, that's a called flyer. Oh, the wind was blowing there. Wait, that shot doesn't count, it's a aberration. Whatever.

As to what barrel isn't garbage? Anything that can shoot sub MOA, every time, all the time.

chrome lining a good barrel doesn't make it automatically go sour, either.

Actually, that's exactly what it does. Not to many folks winning long range shooting matches with chrome lined barrels.

That extra $40 per rifle for the chrome-lining of chamber and bore was probably a good return on Uncle Sam's investment, since they couldn't afford to spend taxpayer's dollars on stainless or Krieger/Obermeyer/Hart/Shilen barrels.

Sure, Cr lining might make sense for issued rifles, your average soldier would never be able to tell the difference anyway, so why bother giving him the best equipment. But for people who actually care about the accuracy of their equipment, Cr lining is a poor option.

 

[GunAdmirer]

Shhh...don't tell my chrome lined Bushmaster that it isn't accurate. Evidently it doesn't know it, and I'm getting some great accuracy.

Unless you are doing some serious long range target or varmint shooting, go with the chrome lined barrel. It's easier to clean, increases velocity and wears well. Definitely worth $40.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Yes, I still recall the American Rifleman review of the Bushie with the AK
muzzle brake doing sub-moa groups.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

Yes, I still recall the American Rifleman review of the Bushie with the AK
muzzle brake doing sub-moa groups.

This is either being said with sarcasm, or you really need to stop believing everything you read. Especially from mags like American Rifleman, or other gun rags (hmmm... ever stop to think who's buying ads in these mags?). A true sub-MOA chrome lined Bushy barrel?! That'll be the day. I don't know how many people I've seen who shoot 10 3-shot groups at 100 yards, with only one of them measuring less than an inch, only to hear the inevitable "see, my rifle shoots sub MOA!". Give me a break.

 

[Coronach]

I don't know how many people I've seen who shoot 10 3-shot groups at 100 yards, with only one of them measuring less than an inch, only to hear the inevitable "see, my rifle shoots sub MOA!". Give me a break.

DINGDINGDING.

Exactly.

Mike

 

[redneck2]

I gonna ask a perhaps foolish question..

Does the Bushmaster Varminter have a chrome bore?? Never paid any attention.

I'd assume "no" as it's not listed as such, but one on the posts talked about Bushmasters and chrome bores. All or just some??

 

[DMK]

Does the Bushmaster Varminter have a chrome bore?? Never paid any attention.

No. It's a chrome moly. Varminters aren't chrome lined as a rule. Some are stainless.

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/lr-24v.asp

24" Fluted Extra Heavy Varmint Barrel - .223 Rem. caliber / 4150 chrome moly steel / full 1" diameter under the handguard / 11 competition crowned muzzle / 1 in 9" twist for optimum performance with most varmint cartridges / full length fluting for increased cooling and reduced weight / machined to same specifications as our DCM Competition Barrel with tolerances twice as tight as regular barrels.

Here's another interesting tidbit from Bushmaster:
http://www.bushmaster.com/faqnew/content_by_cat.asp?contentid=172&catid=100

Is a Stainless Steel barrel any better than a chrome lined?

Stainless steel is better at preventing erosion than regular 4140 steel, but we use mil. spec. 4150 ordnance steel. Then, our barrels are chrome lined and a chrome lined barrel will easily out-last a stainless barrel. A very good article on barrel manufacturing can be found in the '96 Shooter's Bible (Pg. 33). A typical stainless barrel is made from 416 stainless steel and then broach rifled. This process has been around for about 100 years. Our chrome lined barrels are made from 4150 ordnance steel and then button rifled - a process that's been around for about 50 years. This same process has set virtually every record for the National Bench Rest Association (NBRA). Shilen, McMillan and Browning barrels all use the same process but not the same steel. Mil. spec. calls for 4150 steel - same as used in aircraft machinegun barrels and all military small arms barrels. It costs more but we think its well worth the price. The button rifling process work hardens the bore - making tough steel even tougher. Then, after the barrel is fully machined, it is chrome lined, making it even tougher yet - and virtually impervious to rust or erosion. This chroming process isn't like car bumper chroming. It actually welds each chromium molecule to the steel bore. This chrome lining is far more resistant to wear than a bare steel bore and it gives slightly increased velocity due to the lubricity ("slipperiness") of the chrome. And, you'll see less fouling and easier cleaning with a chrome lined barrel - all in all, a superior product.

 

[c_yeager]

huh? So, does that mean if I add a scope to my AR, it isn't an "AR" anymore? What about a bipod, will it still be an AR then?

Let me explain to you for a moment the very complex concepts of "addition" and "subtraction".

If you ADD something to an existing object you still have that object, if you subtract from it you do not.

For example, I have $20 in my pocket, i find a $5 bill and put it in my pocket. Do I still have my $20? Now lets say that instead of finding $5 I spend $5 on a pack of cigarettes. Do I still have $20 now? Do you understand how this works?

 

[strambo]

As to what barrel isn't garbage? Anything that can shoot sub MOA, every time, all the time.

For what purpose? A merely sub-moa barrel is actually a worthless piece of trash...if you are a BR competitor. A 2 MOA barrel might as well be .2 MOA barrel for all it matters...if you are limited to military issue ammo. My M4's chrome-lined barrel is just fine. It does 1.5-2MOA at 100 meters. The limiting factor is the issued ammo. I doubt a Kreiger would tighten things up much.

I'd take an AK-47 with 4 MOA accuracy too as long as it was reliable...wait I did take an AK to a combat zone, it was fine. Tools are designed for a purpose, the purpose most people buy a Kreiger barrel for is different than purpose filled by most chrome lined barrels. It's like calling an adjustable wrench garbage because a single size wrench is superior when used on the exact size nut.

 

[Bullet Bob]

You have to have a chrome lined barrel for the EBR coolness special ops factor.

Mine doesn't, but I'm the least cool person you'll ever meet. Sigh.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

If you ADD something to an existing object you still have that object, if you subtract from it you do not.

Oh, I see now. So if I take off the carry handle, I don't have an AR anymore. So a flat-top AR with a scope isn't an AR, but if I ADD the scope to an AR with the carry handle, then I still have an AR! Wow! It all makes sense now! But wait, what if I "subtract" the flash supressor, but then "add" a muzzle brake, do I still have an AR? Let's say the flash supressor is worth $20, but the muzzle brake is worth $80, so since I've got more in the end then I started with, I still have an AR, right? But wait, maybe I can subtract the chrome lining too, after all, that's only worth $40 or so, and with the $80 muzzle brake addition, I'm still $20 ahead, right? Boy, this is a great system, did you think of this all by yourself, or did you have to put together a team of experts to figure it out?

 

[Coronach]

Sarcasm, it seems, cuts both ways.

Let's all settle down now and play nice.

Mike

 

[Rob96]

I have a nicely broke in DPMS M4 with a chrome moly barrel. Accuracy and reliability have been great. I do not believe a chrome lined barrel is a necessity for the civilian shooter, unless you are lucky enough to have a Class III license. Can't remember exactly where I read it, but did see an article that showed a chrome lined barrel failing at a very premature round count becasue the lining chipped. I want to say it was in a study that was done by NSWFG at Crane. Maybe someone else can remember reading it.