Is there a way of telling if a M1 Carbine buttstock pouch is original

[Doug S]

Any way of telling if a M1 Carbine buttstock pouch is original

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versus being a reproduction? I picked one up today at a gun show. Khaki color stamped JS & S Co. 1943 on the reverse. U.S. on front snap closure. Snap has Klikit with a very small star, and the word pull at the bottom of the snap. The rivet on the back also has some lettering that appears to have UNITED CARR very lightly impressed into the metal. This rivet is off-centered). It is in very nice condition. So nice in fact, that I question it's authenticity. The dealer of couse swore up and down that it was original milsurp. He did tell me that the oiler and sling he was selling was repro. I bought that also. On a more positive note, I was happy to find a Rock-ola marked 15 round magazine, to go with my gun. After I got home and looked at the manufacturer codes, I realized that another one had also been marked Rock-ola. I went back for it, but it was gone. I picked up a second Standard Products mag while I was there, though. Anyway is there anyway of knowing if the mag pouch is really WWII issue versus a modern reproduction? Thanks for any help.

 

[kBob]

I have a couple that I believe were war time production. They are the 15 rounder pouch intended to go on the web belt that had a snap type place holder on the left side of the belt near the buckle. I picked them up in the late 60s through about 78 and they did llok new and one that was in the bottom of my magazine box still does.

If I can have one in a box at home that lloks basically un used why not someone else?

Where did you look up the manufacturing codes on 15 rounders?

Might you post some here or might we ask about spcific marks. I recently took a magazine I bought at a place that delt in bulk surplus ( like trucks, generators etc and "metal parts by weight") out of a cosmo soaked cloth(?) wrapper and it seemed to be new, blue, and marked GSG. I have a few more still wrapped and have given away several over the years (I paid like a buck or less a piece for them three decades + ago or so). Trying to deside whether to open those two or tree remaining ones or leave them in the wraps.

-Bob Hollingsworth

 

[Doug S]

Hi kBob,

Thanks for the response. It's not so much that I think people can't have pristine examples of the mag pouches, it just that I've seen so many "reproductions" pictured on the Internet, stamped with a date and manufacturer, that look authentic. This leads me to wonder if people are passing these very authentic looking pouches off as new condition surplus.

As far as the magazines go, the new in wrap mags were selling for $10 more than the unwrapped, used versions. Prices may vary between dealers, but the ones you have can command a premium in the wrap, versus the more common, unwrapped versions. Now if those mags that you have wrapped happen to be Rock-ola, or something a little more desirable, you may do better to at least slice the end of the wrapper, where they are marked, so that you can at least identify who the maker of your wrapped magazines, are.

Here is a link to the magazine faq. I also have the book "M1 Carbines, Wartime Production" which lists a mag chart showing the codes. The two charts correspond, so I'm assuming they are fairly accurate.

http://www.rawles.to/M1_Carbine_Mag_FAQ.html

 

[bannockburn]

Doug S

Bruce Canfields book, "A Collector's Guide to the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine" also contains a wealth of information on not only M1 Carbine production, but also on the various accessories, as well.

 

[blkbrd666]

Good question on fakes and repros. Other than repro M1A1 stocks and repro slings, I haven't examined many repro items. There were a lot of items, especially web gear, manufactured for major movies like Saving Pvt. Ryan and Band of Brothers...a lot of that is advertised and sold as movie props and most of it seems to come out of Europe. I bought a ton of web gear in the early 90's that is new and unissued...had to dig it out of crates full of new and used...mag pouches by the thousands at a surplus store in Atlanta, GA. Some had actually been stamped with the old grocery store purple ink stamps at $1.95 from years ago when they were in the "old time" surplus stores...sad to have new old stock with a purple stamp on the back. Sometimes you can tell an original just by the quality of the canvas...sometimes there is a distinctive musty smell to it that you just can't recreate in less that 50 years. Mag pouches aren't too rare, so chances are the dealer was being straight up with you. I intend to buy a couple of the known movie props sometime just to examine them for clues...wish I had already done that and could be more helpful.

Definitely pick up the recommended books of you're going to get into collecting...they are almost as fun as browsing through a gun show or surplus store.

 

[Gator]

There are a LOT of unissued carbine pouches out there and they are reasonably priced. I'd believe the dealer.

 

[Doug S]

Thanks for the recommendations, and comments.

I'll check into the book. I don't notice the smell you mention, but I have noticed that smell before on other items. In my U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production, the author C. Riesch, on pg 147 shows a picture of a Type 1 Magazine Pouch. It is identical to the one I purchased, other than it has a different manufacturer stamped on the reverse.