Is This Fair?

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IOwnTheWorld1994

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Most of you may or may not know who Gucci Mane is, that's depending whether or not you listen to hip-hip/rap or not, but this guy who's had a long criminal record including being a felon and he was caught last year with two handguns even though he's a felon and he gets a plea bargain and only gets two years but a woman who brought a handgun into New Jersey got arrested for breaking a law she knew nothing about and is now facing a mandatory three year prison time. Can someone explain to me how is that justice? That goes to show you that fame and fortune can be the difference between jail time and freedom.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=bin91JPrKHlgdn1JSrR8FA&bvm=bv.73231344,d.cGE
 
IOwnTheWorld1994 said:
Most of you may or may not know who Gucci Mane is, that's depending whether or not you listen to hip-hip/rap or not, but this guy who's had a long criminal record including being a felon and he was caught last year with two handguns even though he's a felon and he gets a plea bargain and only gets two years but a woman who brought a handgun into New Jersey got arrested for breaking a law she knew nothing about and is now facing a mandatory three year prison time. Can someone explain to me how is that justice? That goes to show you that fame and fortune can be the difference between jail time and freedom.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=bin91JPrKHlgdn1JSrR8FA&bvm=bv.73231344,d.cGE
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They were talking about this on the NJ gun forums. I think the lady's attorney could use that example for an appeal, if she gets convicted.
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How is 39 months only 2 years?

Also, there's a world of difference between federal gun charges and state charges.
 
IOwnTheWorld1994 said:
Oh my bad. But it seems that federal is more lenient than the state charges.
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  1. Different jurisdictions. Federal in one case, and the State of New Jersey in another.

  2. Different laws.

  3. And in other States, what the Pennsylvania housewife did wouldn't have even been illegal. Our federal system (and Constitution) gives States broad discretion to decide what sorts of conduct is or is not legal within their borders, as well as how severe the punishments will be for violating their laws.

  4. These things are simply not comparable.
 
Is this fair? No, Maybe, and Yes.

It is not fair because two different people are not receiving the same sort of prosecution and an obvious bad guy isn't getting as harshly punished for a similar charge because he made a plea bargain. So Allen sounds like she is getting a bad deal. That would be unfair.

However, the question then arises, "What did the other guy give up to get the plea bargain? What evidence did he deliver to help with other crimes, etc.? We may not know. What does Allen have to bargain with? Pretty much nothing, it would appear.

So as it certainly may be, their circumstances may not be nearly so similar as they appear, hence the possible differences in disposition and so this is maybe fair.

However, in the eyes of the law, it isn't whether or not you (an accused) gets the same punishment as another for the same crime, but whether you receive a punishment that fits within the stipulations of the law and that all has been handled legally. If found guilty, Allen is subject to the full brunt of punishment as is stipulated by law. Receiving any more would be unfair. Using contrived/fake evidence would be unfair. Not having counsel would be unfair....but these things are not in question. She isn't being subjected to punishment beyond the stipulations of the law. There is no indication that evidence would be faked. She does have counsel. She will undoubtedly have a jury of her peers and it will be a fair trial. So in this regard, it will be 'fair.'

Nowhere that I can find in the law does it suggest that everyone get the exact same sentence for a given crime. There is leeway to give lessor sentences in many cases, but not greater sentences than allowed by law.
 
And we're talking about the law here, not "cosmic justice." Concepts of right and wrong are something of a chimera anyway.

It's like a conversation in Major Barbara between Andrew Undershaft (the maker of cannon) and his son:
... STEPHEN [rising and looking at him steadily] I know the difference between right and wrong.

UNDERSHAFT [hugely tickled] You don't say so! What! no capacity for business, no knowledge of law, no sympathy with art, no pretension to philosophy; only a simple knowledge of the secret that has puzzled all the philosophers, baffled all the lawyers, muddled all the men of business, and ruined most of the artists: the secret of right and wrong. Why, man, you're a genius, master of masters, a god! At twenty-four, too!...
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People everywhere are continually struggling to reach a common understanding of "justice", "morality", "love", "right and wrong." They are generally unsuccessful, except with regard to the most extreme circumstances.

But while people everywhere are struggling unsuccessfully to reach a common understanding of "justice", "morality", "love", "right and wrong", we still need a way to resolve disputes without tearing the fabric of society asunder. We might not all be able to reach agreement on "justice", "morality", "love", "right and wrong", except on occasion at certain crossing points, but in the real world we must still be able to get on with life.

Perhaps a true common understanding of "justice", "morality", "love", "right and wrong" will come to us in Heaven. But in the meantime we'll need to try to get along as best we can with the tools we have.
 
Never cornfuse "fair" and "legal". They ain't now, never have been and never will be even close to the same thing.
 
ALWAYS know local laws

On sunday I'm going to be driving all the way from the east coast to the Rocky Mountains. I'm taking a bolt action rifle, a shotgun, and a lever action .22 rimfire with me. You better believe that tonight and tomorrow I am going to be checking firearm transportation laws (especially after reading this!) in all of the states through which I will be driving. The woman should have known better than to take a handgun between the northeastern states without checking the laws. Especially since those states have been so famous for their firearm regulations recently. I heard that Beretta is moving most if not all of their production from Maryland to Tennessee because of the politics up there.
 
In regards to Post #8: eloquent quote, Frank. Although more often than not a bit cynical, George Bernard Shaw is one of the great commentators of this century past. Once in a while literature brings us closer to an understanding of the machinations of the law than formal case study.
 
Well it is comparable in a sense of punishment. Someone who's going into another state carrying a gun in a way that she had no clue that it was an illegal way of doing things warrants three years behind bars, no guns for the rest of her life, voting rights snatched away, having a hard time getting a job, thousands of dollars in legal fees and homeless. While Radric Davis, who got off committing murder, got a felony on his record, numerous assault charges, beef with other rappers, and then threatens police officers with a gun and only gets 39 months despite his lengthy criminal record, shows utter disregard to holding people who have committed numerous crimes and has harmed and killed people, along with utter disregard for the law and LEO get a light sentence even though they say that he has no regard for human life or the safety or well being of others. The only reason they didn't give him more time or a light sentence because he's a rapper and entertains people for a living and people waste their money on this looser and criminal and makes him important to society because people actually care about him. Heck, I even remember that Lindsay Lohan got to do a million dollar photo shoot before serving her sentence. If a teacher had to serve time and requested it to be suspended until they can get a sub to take over and give them all of the tools to be able to take over and not skip a beat, they'd get told 'HECK NO.' As a matter fact, let's just say I was in the process of going to school or moving and I had to serve time, they wouldn't let me take care of my business and then serve my time afterwards. Not to mention I doubt I'd get a plea bargain or get only three years for two federal crimes. Social injustice has ruined our system.
 
I know Gucci Mane has been a topic of discussion amongst NRA news of how "unfair" getting PTD for a two-bit rapper but not a firearm charge that is illegal in NJ but legal 10 miles across the border. It isn't fair and it revolves around money. Mane has it, single PA housewife not so much.

Personally I don't feel sorry for her. Know the laws of someplace before you go. We do not live in "United States of America" when it comes to the Second Amendment. We live in do not go to NY, NJ, CA, or anywhere else that doesn't accept your permit America.
 
herrwalther said:
I know Gucci Mane has been a topic of discussion amongst NRA news of how "unfair" getting PTD for a two-bit rapper but not a firearm charge that is illegal in NJ but legal 10 miles across the border. It isn't fair and it revolves around money. Mane has it, single PA housewife not so much.

Personally I don't feel sorry for her. Know the laws of someplace before you go. We do not live in "United States of America" when it comes to the Second Amendment. We live in do not go to NY, NJ, CA, or anywhere else that doesn't accept your permit America.
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But it was in her car. And that's what we say to people who come to CA but there's so much confusion to the laws, that even the DA's, LEO and everyone else doesn't understand.

Just ask Matt Corwin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14URdqHJRcQ

Arrested and jailed 23 days and $50K legal fees, and $1K to retrieve his guns that were 'LEGAL' in the state of California. No LEO for 10 years, if ever, it's going to be on his record an will show up whenever he applies for a job or anything that requires a background check. So whenever you break a gun law unknowingly, even if you do research the laws, I nor anyone else should feel sorry for you.
 
Okay, enough of this gripe session. Yes, life in not fair. That can't be news to anyone. And complaining gets no one anywhere. Get politically active and fix things.

And the real lesson needs to be that because life is not fair, if you are a gun owner you need to know the law. Because life in not fair, if you don't know the law and how to conduct your affairs without violating the law, there's an good chance you'll wind up unhappy about how things work out.

But wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments about it won't help.
 
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