Is this pistol too big to shoot offhand?

[Aragon]

Would this pistol be too long/heavy to target shoot off-hand with a "standard" two handed pistol grip (without external support) versus having to have one's secondary hand on the pistol's fore stock?

It weighs 3.7 pounds and is 18.5" overall. There are a few videos of people shooting it one and two handed without support, but nothing really conclusive. Thanks much.

 

[Pete D.]

offhand

That is a lot of weight to hold one handed unsupported. Could a person do it? yes, of course.....how strong are you?
I shoot this one one hand unsupported. It has a 12" barrel and about the same OAL as the gun in the OP. I am fairly sure that it does not weigh 3.7lbs.

 

[whughett]

Well I shoot my Walker two handed, Weaver Stance, and it out weighs your gun by several pounds.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

The CVA Optima has a max load rating of 150 grains of BP. If you use a heavy load the recoil is going to be pretty stout for most folks to handle that way.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

The CVA Optima has a max load rating of 150 grains of BP. If you use a heavy load the recoil is going to be pretty stout for most folks to handle that way.

And shoot half the powder out the barrel, un-burned!

Two handed, as the OP mentions should be fine. A Desert Eagle is about 4# as well and, while heavy, doesn't need shooting sticks to use!

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Yes, max load of 150 grains will result in some unburnt powder however, the recommended optimum load by CVA is 90 to 100 grains of BP. That is a stouter load than most folks are going to be comfortable with firing in a Weaver stance. Not to mention that the optima's weight is all barrel, which makes it end heavy.

 

[CraigC]

I've handed these and they would be no different from a Contender. Been tempted to get one. I seem to have no problem with a couple hundred round session with the 3rd model Dragoon that weighs half a pound more.

...and it out weighs your gun by several pounds.

3.7lbs vs 4.5lbs is not a difference of "several".

 

[Aragon]

That is a lot of weight to hold one handed unsupported. Could a person do it? yes, of course.....how strong are you?
I shoot this one one hand unsupported. It has a 12" barrel and about the same OAL as the gun in the OP. I am fairly sure that it does not weigh 3.7lbs.

Two-handed.

 

[Aragon]

The CVA Optima has a max load rating of 150 grains of BP. If you use a heavy load the recoil is going to be pretty stout for most folks to handle that way.

For target shooting the load would be closer to 50g.

 

[Aragon]

Yes, max load of 150 grains will result in some unburnt powder however, the recommended optimum load by CVA is 90 to 100 grains of BP. That is a stouter load than most folks are going to be comfortable with firing in a Weaver stance. Not to mention that the optima's weight is all barrel, which makes it end heavy.

I use an Isosceles Stance when shooting pistols in a match.

 

[HUnter58]

I had in mind one hand when I had these two built. Wrong, I now use both hands for both of these. They both have 12 inch barrels.

 

[Pete D.]

load

sorry...i missed that two handed stipulation. When I think "target shooting", I think one hand unsupported as the go to.
The load for the gun that I shoot is 18-20 grains of FFFg and a .490 LRB.
50 grains is awfully heavy for target shooting with a pistol.
Pete

BTW- that is a beautiful flinter.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

50 grains is the minimum recommended powder load by CVA.

Looks like you are just going to have to try it and find out for yourself if is what you're looking for.
Watch out for the nearly razor sharp edges of the pistol grip where it surrounds the trigger guard.

 

[whughett]

I also shoot, not often and for sure not more then a couple of cylinders, 44 mags at max load. Can not see any hand held black powder pistol at any load equal that for sheer recoil. And the 44 is now one of the "little boys" in the pistol power world.

 

[noelf2]

The optima pistol is too heavy for me to fire one handed if not on a rest. I shoot 100gr equivalent 777 pellets and a 250gr sabot slug. It has some pretty hefty recoil and muzzle flip but it's a fine shooter. Will give you a flinch if you aren't careful.

 

[CraigC]

I also shoot, not often and for sure not more then a couple of cylinders, 44 mags at max load. Can not see any hand held black powder pistol at any load equal that for sheer recoil.

I've been shooting the .44Mag for 24yrs and a .54cal Lyman Plains Pistol will get your attention with full loads! The CVA pistol in question uses twice as much powder.

 

[Aragon]

50 grains is the minimum recommended powder load by CVA.

Looks like you are just going to have to try it and find out for yourself if is what you're looking for.
Watch out for the nearly razor sharp edges of the pistol grip where it surrounds the trigger guard.

It would be interesting to find out if anyone has had success shooting this pistol with 20-40g of powder? Much has to do with the sort of projectile being used. I wonder how the barrel of this pistol differs with respect to say the Lyman Plains pistol in terms of twist and dimensions? I wonder how well it would shoot round balls with 20-40g?

 

[Aragon]

From the CVA Optima manual:

"MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM LOADS FOR OPTIMA V-2 PISTOL
CVA recommends a minimum of 50 grains, by volume, of blackpowder
or blackpowder substitute in your CVA muzzleloader pistol. Although
the Optima pistol shares a similar action and barrel with Optima rifle
and is equally strong, the 150 grain “magnum” charge is not appropriate
due to the short barrel length. In fact, the extra unburned powder can
actually reduce the velocity of the bullet. Testing of various powders
and pellets, using a chronograph for accurate velocity measurements,
has shown that the highest velocities were attained with 90 to 100 grains
of loose or 100 grains of pelletized powder."

"MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM LOADS FOR OPTIMA V-2 RIFLE
CVA recommends a minimum of 50 grains, by volume, of blackpowder
or blackpowder substitute in your CVA muzzleloader rifle. The maximum
load in CVA break-action guns, and any other CVA in-line gun designated
as a “Magnum” is 150 grains by volume. This maximum load is generally
known as the “magnum” load and is best suited for pelletized powder
due to the more efficient burning characteristics of the powder pellets.
Magnum loads of loose powder may be shot but are not recommended
because of their inefficient and incomplete burning of the powder. Some
bullet designs depend on the thrust of the powder charge to expand, or
obdurate, the bullet inside the bore for best accuracy. Loads under 50
grains cannot be depended on to do this. In many cases lighter bullets
are more sensitive to this than heavier bullets and often require heavy
powder charges to produce the best accuracy. For those who wish to
shoot moderate powder charges of 90 to 120 grains the heavier bullets
generally give better results."

I suspect a round ball would perform fine with a lighter load.

 

[Pete D.]

Charges

I shoot three different 50 caliber pistols...two underhammer guns and a flinter.
PRB in all three. Never more than 20 grains of FFFg BP. Never a problem. Accuracy is fine out to fifty yards.
Pete

 

[Aragon]

I shoot three different 50 caliber pistols...two underhammer guns and a flinter.
PRB in all three. Never more than 20 grains of FFFg BP. Never a problem. Accuracy is fine out to fifty yards.
Pete

I wonder if there could possibly be anything with the twist of this barrel, internal barrel taper or its dimension with regard to an available round ball size or anything else that would require 50g as a minimum? Or does it have more to do with the projectile? I'm also curious about the

The new CVA® Blackhorn™ QR Breech Plug is specifically designed for use with Blackhorn™ or other loose powder muzzleloading propellants. Nothing affects performance of your muzzleloader more than a clean breech plug for consistent ignition and better overall accuracy.

This stainless steel replacement breech plug is designed to work with all CVA Accura V2, Optima and Wolf models, 2010 or newer. This plug is optimal for whatever type of propellant you choose to use, either loose or pelletized. The CVA 209 breech plug allows the flash-hole to remain debris free after repeated shots with finer, loose powder propellants. You no longer need to continually clean out the flash-hole after each shot.

 

[Pete D.]

The twist rate of 1-28" is optimized for sabots or slugs but not for PRBs.....the former require more propellant.
Round ball twist rates run 1-60" or slower....1-66" is common.
My Hopkins and Allen pistol is 1-66", iirc. The pictured gun in my earlier post from Greyhaven Arms is also quite slow (not faster than 1-48")

 

[Aragon]

The twist rate of 1-28" is optimized for sabots or slugs but not for PRBs.....the former require more propellant.
Round ball twist rates run 1-60" or slower....1-66" is common.
My Hopkins and Allen pistol is 1-66", iirc. The pictured gun in my earlier post from Greyhaven Arms is also quite slow (not faster than 1-48")

Very interesting. I wonder how accurate this pistol would be with that twist rate shooting a PRB? That's pretty much all I would be shooting.

I also wonder if there's any load data for this pistol using BP and a PRB?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The Knight Hawkeye muzzle loading pistol is 20 inches oal and weighs 3.25 pounds.

 

[Aragon]

It appears the 1-28" and PRB combo is not one made in heaven:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=387240&highlight=round+ball+in+1%3A28+twist

Although on another thread someone posted:

"A PRB will shoot OK in a 1 in 28 twist barrel as long as you don't push it too fast. I shoot .495 round balls using a .016 pillow ticking patch from my CVA Wolf with 1 in 28" twist with excellent accuracy at 50 yards. I load about 40 grains of FFFg black powder for best accuracy. If you want to shoot longer distances, a minnie-type or Lee R.E.A.L. bullet would be a better choice."

Which I found to be quite interesting.

 

[Pete D.]

Hmmm

40 grains of FFFg is still a lot of powder.
A .495" LRB and .016" patch.... He must have to pound that pretty hard to get it to seat. I shoot a .490" and 0.010 patches and that combo works just fine.

I did some looking for you in Gun Digest's Black Powder Loading Manual.
They list loads for the Buckhunter inline pistol in .50 cal.
9 1/2" barrel, 1-28" twist.
A .490 LRB with a .015 patch and 30 grains of FFg yields a MV of 962fps.
50 grs. FFg gives 1051 fps
Normal practice is to drop the charge 10% when going to FFFg.
My Hopkins and Allen boot pistol - though in .36 cal - uses a 20 grain load.
Evidently I was wrong about the twist rate for the H&A. GD says that the .36 has a
1-15" twist. I will have to check my .50 again.