Israeli Czech Mauser, bolt won't chamber a round

[lionking]

I dug into the safe today to get a 38-55 out, and because I also dug out this Israeli Mauser I bought over 10 years ago off gun broker and just didn't bother after when I found out it won't chamber a round.

Serial numbers for bolt and receiver match, it is in excellent shape the bore is mirror bright. Problem is I can't shoot it because the issue of it not chambering a .308 or 7.62x51mm. I tried again today slipped a empty casing in the chamber, seem to fit fine but bolt won't close. I don't want to try a live round in the home.

Thoughts? By the way is this a VZ24 Mauser?

 

[saiga308]

could be the extractor look closer at it
found this on another forum same rifle as yours

Ok, what to do with this annoying problem?

Always when the last round from the follower is beign chambered, the bolt won't close.

The reason is that the extractor claw wont grip the rim of the last round on the follower and when operating the bolt, the extractor pushes the cartridge towards the chamber. Because of this malfunction, the headspace becomes far too long and the bolt won't close. More closer examination of the problem reveals that the edge of the extractor seems not to go over the edge of the rim spontaneously with the last round on the follower.

Is the follower feeding the last cartridge "too high" or is there somekind of malfunction with the magazine feeding lips, letting the cartridges to raise too high or feeding them in the wrong angle?

Any solutions how to fix this problem?

Thanks in advance

or the chamber it wasnt reem out very well and it was never fired? looks new to me, what ammo are yah using?

 

[saiga308]

I tried again today slipped a empty casing in the chamber,

well thiers your issue the brass has e-xp-an-d-ed you need to try a unspent round

 

[nikshave]

Put the empty case in the magazine so it slips into the extractor. It's a controlled feed action.

 

[saiga308]

Put the empty case in the magazine so it slips into the extractor. It's a controlled feed action.

still not going to chamber if it was shot from another rifle will a larger chamber it could of expanded slightly more then it, i know i have found that out with diffrent 308s when reloading

 

[DocRock]

Put the empty case in the magazine so it slips into the extractor. It's a controlled feed action.

Do this first. If no luck, full length resize a 308 case and try again. I am assuming you have verified it is in fact chambered in 308?

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

Find a smith with the ol go and no-go gauges. He will likely have a finish reamer for .308 as well if he has the gauges? I think you can rent all that stuff too

 

[saiga308]

check this one out number 6980 yours is the older brother 7372
https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14457273

 

[saiga308]

reloaded round not size correctly will not close in a normal chamber

video time 1:46

 

[4v50 Gary]

headspace gauge. Remove the extractor first. Should close on "go" but not on "no go" gauge.

 

[lionking]

well thiers your issue the brass has e-xp-an-d-ed you need to try a unspent round

won't either with live round at the range last time I was going to shoot it.

 

[lionking]

Find a smith with the ol go and no-go gauges. He will likely have a finish reamer for .308 as well if he has the gauges? I think you can rent all that stuff too

sounds like what needs to be done

 

[saiga308]

sounds like what needs to be done

sounds like the case shoulder in the chamber is short a little, gunsmith can reem it out if needed

 

[boom boom]

One thing I recommend is snap caps or dummy rounds for every rifle cartridge that one has rifles in. Removes the whole safety issue using live ammo. Apart from that, use a sharpie on the case itself or marking fluid to indicate where the cartridge is rubbing or not on its path to the chamber and include marking the shoulder. Second, check the chamber with a very strong light. Sometimes remnants of an old cartridge are left in the chamber after a case head separation--if left long enough, it can resemble a chamber walls. Third, check the locking lug recesses in the receiver and the cocking piece on the rifle to make sure that neither are blocking the bolt from fully closing.

From sources in history, the Czechs were desperate for cash post-war and the Israelis were desperate for rifles. Your stock for example is not a vz-24 but more like the Nazi era alternative rifle the g24t which were made from parts of vz-24s until the Nazis fully switched over the Czech plants to their 98k std. models. These vary a bit during production probably as parts sources were exhausted and your has the short handguard rather than the longer one of the first g24t's. It is also possible that it was made up of parts postwar by the Czechs and Israelis from scrounging whatever parts available or possibly by an importer/individual. Some importers are relatively infamous for assembling parts rifles that snare unsuspecting buyers. The markings on the rifle parts can shed some light on this. For example, is the bolt serialized and matches the barrel and receiver? Are there peened markings indicated German capture/use? Are there waffenamts (German manufacturer codes) on the parts on the rifle such as sights, trigger guard, barrel bands, etc. For example, the Germans std. sight ladder begins with 100m while the Czech rear sight ladder begins at 300m and so on. Czech rifle barrels have thicker than normal lands compared with German barrels as well.

You might very well have an Israeli contract barrel on it which might have markings to indicate FN manufacture for example because their Mauser conversions from 8x57 occurred for the Israelis somewhere after 1954 but definitely by 1956 or so. https://www.forgottenweapons.com/israeli-7-62mm-conversion/. Either the Israelis or someone else over time might have put a short chambered barrel on it and simply forgotten to ream out the chamber--these rifles by the 1960's were being replaced by modern self-feeding rifles such a the FAL during the latter half of the 1950's. https://www.forgottenweapons.com/israeli-light-barrel-fal-from-ds-arms/

 

[Slamfire]

The 7.62 stamping on the receiver is consistent with my slave labor Israeli 308 Czech Mauser.My receiver is very rough, no attempt to polish out machine marks. The short magazine insert is not shown in the pictures.

Boom Boom is correct in that these rifles have passed through many hands. It is very possible that the importer had cheap contract labor screw new barrels on rifles with rusted bores. I saw the back rooms of Federal Ordnance, they had a dumpster full of rejected parts, boxes full of refinished parts, and they had benches where they were rebuilding M1903's from the refinished parts. From web posts, Century Arms does similar. I read a book about Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle. A US firm contracted with a small Italian business to rebuild and modify military Carcano rifles. The American firm also stiffed the Italian gunsmithing business for its payment of the work!

I do know new Israeli 308 Win replacement barrels were around because I bought two of them. I screwed one on a Czech 7mm Mauser. The 7mm barrel was a sewer pipe. The Israeli barrel is just a service grade barrel, nothing special in terms of accuracy. It is very possible that if the OP's gun has a replacement barrel, it was either reamed incorrectly, the reamer was worn, or the assembler did not ream the chamber! And, someone may have swapped bolts sometime in the past.

If the OP's rifle won't chamber rounds, the first thing to do is headspace the rifle. You don't know anything until you measure.

 

[Bwana John]

Extractor.
Take it off the bolt and try again.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

I've owned two of these Czech/Israeli conversions and had feeding issues with both. Neither had the extractor beveled for single feed, which meant that rounds had to be controlled fed from the magazine or the bolt wouldn't close. Removing the extractor before trying a verified in-spec dummy round will remove this variable from the equation. If you plan to check the chamber with gauge you're usually supposed to remove the extractor anyway

Also the feed geometry of the mag well on my two Czech/Israelis were unaltered, other than adding a spacer at the front -- the problem I observed was that the bolt would contact the cartridge base and then the bullet would nose dive before reaching the feed ramp. To get mine feeding reliably I carefully beveled the extractor by hand and then used handloads with a fairly long OAL and sharply pointed bullets to mimic the original 7.92x57 military cartridge length. Brownells used to offer an aftermarket 98 extractor that was pre-beveled, but it looks like it's been discontinued. Kunhausen's book on the Mauser explains the correct way to do this little job.

https://www.amazon.com/Mauser-Bolt-Action-Manual-Through/dp/999396400X

Checking headspace and chamber depth is always advisable with milsurps you plan to shoot. Occasional mis-matched bolts are not unknown.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

My question is where is the cartridge hanging up? Does it go almost all the way in, halfway or not at all?
I think the first thing to look at is whether or not something is stuck in the chamber. If someone fired the wrong ammo in it it's possible a piece of brass is caught in the chamber. Had that happen on an 03 Springfield.

 

[David P Dickensheets]

Had this happen. The problem was that it had an 8mm follower. Changed to a 308 follower and all went well.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

2 part suggestion:

1. Brownells.com

2. Cerrosafe.

 

[Bluestone]

The OP summed up the entire problem when he said that he slipped an empty case into the chamber, then tried to close the bolt. If you put a round into the chamber a Mauser bolt is not going to close on it. Mauser's only feed from the magazine. If you try to close a Mauser bolt on a round already in the chamber, the front of the extractor is just going to bang on the back of the case. It's a control feed action, not a push feed action.