just about ready to give up

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fmiller4

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I'd like to apologize in advance, but this may be more venting than actually presenting a solvable problem.

I have been reloading for about 10 years. All of it on a Hornady LNL press. Pistol and rifle.

In that time I honestly don't think I've even ONCE made it through 500 rounds without having to more or less rebuild the press. I've always assumed this is operator error on my part. But these days I'm not so sure.

Basically it goes like this: I'm loading away when a primer doesn't set properly. Then, because it is sticking out just a bit, it creates drag on the rotation of the shellplate. Pretty soon, the plate is out of sync with the dies. I adjust the pawls. It works for a while, then it goes out of sync again.

OR (and this might be the same problem) the shuttle either fails to pick up a fresh primer (which ends up with powder spilling out through the empty hole) or doesn't move forward enough. When I screw the primer ram in all the way it blocks the movement of the shuttle. When I back it out a wee bit, the primer doesn't seat enough.

I've gorilla-glued a piece of spring metal over the small dent in the press created by the primer ram. This sort of helps, but I'm still having a lot of issues.

I understand that the primer mechanism on the LNL isn't perfect. But as I look around online, it seems like the overwhelming majority of people who use this press are very happy with it. I've talked to people who have NEVER adjusted the pawls, or had a single primer issue. I can't output even 100 rounds without some problem, so obviously there is something fundamental that I am doing VERY wrong...

Just to see, I hand primed a batch and skipped the priming system altogether. That seemed to work, but then why have a progressive?

The people at Hornaday have been great, and we're set for them to take a look (second time it's been to them). But I'm really starting to regret having gotten this system, and if I weren't so invested in it (case feeder, bushings, etc) I'd just give up and get a Dillon. That said, I'm sure they have issues of their own.

It's entirely possible that I'm just a screw-up and should be kept away from pointy scissors, matches, and - especially - reloading presses.

Have ANY of you had problems like this?
 
fmiller, I don't think I can help you, as I'm one of those that has been able to run the LNL and prime on the press without too many issues.
I won't lie and tell you that it's flawless, but I can tell you that I've loaded over 24K rounds on 2 of them. My first one was bought used.

I have had the issues that you mention where the primer doesn't seat right and I get the dragging on the shell plate. When that happens, I stop, pull all of the cases off the stations. Sometimes I have to loosen the shellplate to get the high primered brass out. And then reseat the primer. Load everything back in its place and continue on. I haven't had to adjust the pawls for that issue.

I have adjusted the pawls to ensure the shellplate is stopping in the correct places on both up and down strokes.
I have glued a dime to the press to help with the divot issue. I also encounter the primer not dropping correctly from time to time.
What I do see with the priming is that the lining up of the primer drop tube with the shuttle and the timing adjustment with the cam wire plastic holder on top is critical. This affects the timing of the shuttle and how far back it goes to pick up a primer from the tube.
Another aspect of the priming system is that it needs to be clean of debris, whether spilled powder flakes, brass or lead shavings from aggressive crimps, or any other junk. I have a can of compressed air on the bench and I will hit the shellplate, particularly the primer area, at the start of every session and after each batch of 100 rounds.

I usually load batches of 200-300 rounds on the presses at a time, stopping at each 100 to blow the air around, load up the primer tube and keep going.

I don't know what else to suggest, except that one other thing that helped was the new style solid primer punch. I find that they are less susceptible to crud getting caught in it than the old style. And as a last point, developing a good rhythm of operation with a full push on the handle to ensure primer seating helps iron out some problems. I've had a buddy of mine run the press and he had more "issues" in 100 rounds than I ever do. From observing him it was due to not having a smooth rhythm to the cycle. It was sort of herky-jerky and caused a lot of primer misfeeds.

There are a few others here that run it in full progressive mode, priming on the press. Some others run in partial progressive, priming off the press. Either way, we've found what works for each of us.

I hope some of this helps, if not, I'm sure that the Hornady folks should be able to help you out.
 
I have been hand priming for many years. I load on an LNL. I have never primed a single case with it. Before that I hand primed when using my Projector press (Precurser to the LNL). Some think that is nuts, and that's OK. I also size & deprime in one run, then hand prime, then load on the LNL. Some folks think that is double nuts, and that's OK too. :)
 
Couple of things I've found:

1. The primer shuttle works better with some brands of primers than others. I loaded through 12,000 Fiocchi primers with it working like butter. Ran out, bought 10,000 Sellier and Bellot, and it'll jam up at least every 3rd or 4th tube full. I think it MAY be getting better on those though. Seems something is wearing it with them.

2. When you seat a primer - seat it hard. Just make absolutely sure it goes down in there and you'll avoid that issue with one dragging afterwards.

3. In addition to what mstreddy mentioned about cleaning the priming system - the press can also be sensitive to the shellplate being dirty too. Every 2,000 rounds or so, I take off the shellplate, scrub with with a bit of solvent and a toothbrush, and then do the same with the top of the ram that the plate mates to. Look at the holes that the shellplate indexes into and if you see some powder build up in there, take a metal pick and clear it out.

Overall though, maybe its different on a Dillon, but for me it seems that at least with the LnL you just have to be familiar with the press to a degree and be willing to work it out when something goes wrong. For me its still worth it and a heck of a lot faster than a single stage.
 
I also have owned a Red progressive press. Sold it and bought a Dillon 550. I have no regrets and now enjoy loading ammo.

I think every press model has it's own quirks. I personally would rather index the shellplate by hand.
 
I know for a fact that I could get your machine to run perfectly and so can you.
Now on the top of the page when you get on the form the is a post called "RELOADING LIBRARY OF WISDOM" go there.
Now there is a sub post called "WHAT CLEVER THINGS HAVE YOU "INVENTED OR DISCOVERED" THAT YOU CAN SHARE?" go there.
Go to page 54 post #1334 I have explained how to time your machine.
 
I have been hand priming for many years. I load on an LNL. I have never primed a single case with it. Before that I hand primed when using my Projector press (Precurser to the LNL). Some think that is nuts, and that's OK. I also size & deprime in one run, then hand prime, then load on the LNL. Some folks think that is double nuts, and that's OK too. :)

I pretty much use my L-N-L like this as well. Also my Dillon SDB, and RCBS Pro2000. I bought a Dillon BL550 in part because it did not have a priming system.

I'd get about one or two priming failures on the L-N-L every 400-500 rounds or so and in my mind that was too frequent without being able to inspect the primer seating before loading the case. Once I had a problem, it would take too long to get things back to normal.

Since I prefer to clean the cases after resizing but before priming, hand priming is not really an issue. I have found that I could hand prime 100 cases in less time as it takes to fill a primer tube.

Finally, I resize cases shortly after shooting them. Small batches resize fast on the L-N-L if you are not doing anything else. I then clean and store them for a future loading session. (All my handgun sizing is done on the L-N-L, rifle on a single stage)

Like Walkalong, folks think I'm nuts and "wasting" the performance of a progressive. But, I load more ammunition faster than I can shoot it and I have pleasant, trouble free evenings at the reloading bench. Who cares what other folks think.
 
One more thing.....Why would I want a Dillon anything?
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I have a LNL. I prefer to deprime (and flair) my cases then clean them.
Once have clean cases I hand prime with a Lee tool.
When I go to load that's one less thing to worry about and I can prime with the Lee tool as fast as I can fill tubes by hand.
Also I don't really like having spare filled primer tubes laying about. It just seems to like an accident waiting to happen.
I can sit and watch football on the weekend and prime cases.
Sure it may be slower but it works well for me.
 
I first got a Pro1000 that I figured out pretty fast. The only mod I did was to ditch the chain & revert it back to the spring to get it to build good ammo. I then "upgraded" to a use LNL. I spent a good amount of time fixing & adjusting to get the press running. I watched videos & read several threads on different problems. There was things I never did get to work up to my expectations. So I sold it for a profit & bought a Load Master. The Load Master takes a little patience also but I was much happier with it. With any press you need a very sturdy bench. What looks like over kill is probably still falling short of a good bench.
 
I've had my LNL-AP near 9 yrs now. Those having problem seating primers are not pushing the handle all the forward till it stops firmly. The design of the press will/can push a primer approx 0.070" below flush if there was no bottom to the pocket. If with the dimple there is more than enough travel. As far as primers sticking in the tube and/or not picking up there are several things to check. Fist make sure the primer feed tube is free of any flaws. I had one that the seam was showing (raised) causing the sticking. Then you MUST have the alignment of the shuttle in perfect alignment with the feed tube. You must full stroke the ram. Short stroke and it may not pick up, there is an adj for that. I've had some primers that were a little taller than std and caused feeding problems. The fix was to put a sheet of paper under the base to gain 0.003" clearance. Worked like a charm. Once I finished those 10k primers I never bought that brand any more. Keep a can of can air to keep the debree out of the primer shuttle. I filed the bottom front edge round of the sled to allow for some junk. This helps a lot to allow the sled to go forward completely.

The Dillons are actually more complicated mechanically. So adj on them is also critical like any fine machine.

I have setup several machines for friends. Once I set them up they just use them trouble free. You did not mention as to what part of the country/world your located at. If so maybe some one can stop by and get your press setup correctly.
 
Clean and polish your primer shuttle. Take a piece of sandpaper and put a small bevel on the bottom leading edge of it, seems to make it more crud resistant. Some primers will feed harder. I use CCI, Federal, Winchester, all with no issues. Verify the shuttle is going back far enough to pick up the next primer. Slightly bevel the inside of the hole where the primer drops into the shuttle with a case prep tool. Also, make sure you have the new primer punches without the holes in them. The metal over the dimple is a good idea, I put a dime on mine awhile back. And seat primers with some force to ensure they are fully seated. It is VERY unlikely you can seat one hard enough to blow it up.

As far as timing, it sounds like your screws are moving. Id pull them then and put a touch of LockTite on them. Adjust timing, both on the up and down, while the press is empty. I use the primer punch for centering on the bottom because that is the most important there. On the top, I just use a rifle case, and run it up to center in one of the holes in the top of the press. That will get you really close, fine tune, as in very small turns to get it spot on while you are loading the first couple of rounds. Last thing you could look at is making sure your pawls are in good shape.

One other thing to look at is the the ball detents on the shell plates. Make sure they are low enough the shell plate is snapping into position. Too low and they snap hard and spill powder, too high and they are lazy in getting the shell plates in position.

If I was there in person, I could sort this in about 15 minutes, so all I can do is give ideas on potential fixes.

Those that crow about your Dillons? Dillons are good presses too, but Dillons have their own set of issues, so please dont bring that into a discussion where a guy is looking for honest help. I own gear of all colors, and I will never talk bad about any manufacturer unless it truly is a POS.
 
Hi All!

First, I'd like to thank everyone who replied. This is good, solid advice (except maybe the picture of the blue martini) (mmm.... blue martini....).

As some of you probably already know, I've posted my problem on a number of forums and gotten more or less the same advice.

So the upshot is that when it gets back from Hornady I'm going to apply a lot of what you've given me.

One last thing though, a lot more people prime separately than I would have thought.

I tried a batch with a Lee Auto-Prime last night and it went faster than I'd assumed. The catch though is that today my wrist is sore as hell. I'm thinking of trying one of the bench mounted priming gizmos RCBS makes - do you any of you have strong feelings one way or the other about these?

f
 
There are so many things that need to be setup right and then tuned for reliable operation with any press.
With the LnL did you put a bit of blue locktie on the cam pin threads so they will not walk easily?
I would go through the entire preparation and write everything down like check list style.
Some advice already posted on this thread. Brass preparation is key with any press system.
The main thing is before you get cranking make sure you do every stage very reliable individually so you can debug the problems and address one by one. This is part of the tuning process. The main thing is to get the shell plate to be very reliable with proper lube and indexing. For primer you can run the pieces with a emery cloth if this is a brand new and wash everything well.
powder drops, case feeders, bullet feeders they all have a few tricks that help a lot.
 
I tried a batch with a Lee Auto-Prime last night and it went faster than I'd assumed. The catch though is that today my wrist is sore as hell. I'm thinking of trying one of the bench mounted priming gizmos RCBS makes - do you any of you have strong feelings one way or the other about these?

f

As I age and after a broken wrist courtesy of my mustang, I cannot prime large number (more than 100-200) of cases at one sitting any more. I bought the RCBS APS bench primer (actually two, one set up for each size primer). Much easier on the hands and wrist.

Unless you buy the pre-loaded primer stripes, loading the APS strips takes little time making the priming operation less efficient. But, loading primer tubes for a tube fed bench primer would be similar. I found time to load tubes or strips about the same.

Generally when making a 1000 round run or so, I'll prime cases and get the press set up for a loading session in one evening and do the actual loading the next evening. I rarely load the same cartridge in two successive loading sessions so I leave the press stripped of dies and shell plates when it is idle.

There are other bench mounted priming tools on the market but I do not have experience with them
 
I also size & deprime in one run, then hand prime, then load on the LNL. Some folks think that is double nuts, and that's OK too. :)
I don’t think that’s nuts at all. That’s how I do it as well. Way more relaxing. Way less like work.
As far as timing, it sounds like your screws are moving. Id pull them then and put a touch of LockTite on them.
I think you would be much better off using Vibratight. Put it on, let it dry, then assemble. Its meant to be used on threads that are adjusted. Works great.
I can't output even 100 rounds without some problem, so obviously there is something fundamental that I am doing VERY wrong...
I believe the fundamental problem is the differences with cases and primers. There are certain brands of brass and certain brands of primers that don’t seem to work as well as others. I have sent my AP in to Hornady. They tried, but could not fix it. I went through the thing and made some changes. So now the press works very well, right up until I run into a crimped primer or a S&B case. So now I have to pull the case and chamfer the primer pocket. Then put it back in the press and get back to loading.

Funny thing, the whole time I was working to get the press to prime reliably I was hand priming. I found out that for me, it works out better.
 
I do quite well with my LnL if I don't go too fast. There are no awards for rounds per hour output. No matter how you do it, it will be faster than a single stage or turret.

If my machine didn't allow me to prime on the press, I would replace it. I want to keep the "progressive" in progressive reloading.

I do sort my brass head stamps. Some are too much trouble to prime easily and get segregated. S&B comes to mind.

I have all the upgraded parts I am aware of, especially in the primer punch and slide.

My primer motion is very firm and deliberate, feeling for that little grunt you get when the primer seats. I don't try to slam the primer in there, in a rush to advance to the next station.

There is a mental and technique element aside from the mechanical. Slowing down and finessing a bit should help.
 
I may have missed you saying but what cartridge are you loading? Most 9mm & 223 have crimped pockets & will shut a progressive down if it isn't removed.
 
In your post you state "When I screw the primer ram in all the way it blocks the movement of the shuttle." Do you mean the "Primer Seater Punch" blocks the Primer Slide? The Primer Seater Punch should be screwed in all the way and cause no interference with the Primer Slide. I have found that the Primer Seater Punch is pretty soft and easy to destroy if tightened too much.

If you get a problem with a primer dragging for some reason, stop, remove all of the cartridges in progress, remove the shell plate and fix the problem - do not try to force the press to rotate. If you force rotation, you may damage the Pawls. You should never force the press to rotate for any reason.

If, while priming, you sense that no primer was seated, do not advance the press, stop and remove the case in the priming position, fix the problem by unsticking the primer slide, put the case back in, and seat the primer. This way you will never have a case full of powder without a primer spilling powder as it travels around.
 
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