Justice officials in "Panic Mode" over failed Gun Program

[ATBackPackin]

New York Times vs. Rep. Issa

Here is an interesting round table discussion video.

 

[Sky]

Sept. 04 at 21:00 eastern on Nat Geo looks like a special called Boarder Wars. Think again there is going to be much talk about guns from America going south. Will try to watch unless I vapor lock before.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Border Wars is a series, isn't it? Is it a new episode?

 

[Sky]

Yes saw the info on Fox talking about a new investigative report airing tonight.

 

[publius]

Did anyone watch that report? I fell asleep.

 

[blue_ridge]

"90% of mexican drug cartel guns come from USA" I think it is hilarious how liberals are so easily duped by these types of stories. I have some liberal friends and they believe almost everything they read and hear, so long as it follows a certain predictable script.

Does anyone ever consider how the USA is one of the most expensive places in the world to find guns? Mexico is the Wild West all over again and the drug cartels control whole regions of Mexican territory. they can fly cargo planes full of guns right into their back yard any time they want. But our idiots in the media and at large believe Mexican drug gangs would rather pay close to retail for guns in America and then drive them across the boarder under scrutiny!

Meanwhile, Russia, the middle east, Africa and even China have large stores of cheap guns ready for shipment to the dirt patch nearest you. This ATF operation stunk from the beginning. I think it had ZERO to do with gun trafficking or law enforcement and EVERYTHING to do with convincing Americans they should give up some constitutionally protected gun rights.

Don't forget, Obama recently told Sarah Brady that they were working on gun control, but it was going to be "under the radar". Meaning, without Congresses approval.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

"90% of mexican drug cartel guns come from USA" I think it is hilarious how liberals are so easily duped by these types of stories. I have some liberal friends and they believe almost everything they read and hear, so long as it follows a certain predictable script.

Well, it's certainly true that between weapons given by the US Government to the Mexicans and syphoned off, sold, stolen, and so on, plus the guns walked in by ATF, the US has provided a lot of guns to Mexico.

Does anyone ever consider how the USA is one of the most expensive places in the world to find guns? Mexico is the Wild West all over again and the drug cartels control whole regions of Mexican territory. they can fly cargo planes full of guns right into their back yard any time they want. But our idiots in the media and at large believe Mexican drug gangs would rather pay close to retail for guns in America and then drive them across the boarder under scrutiny!

I love the news stories that show pictures of automatic weapons, grenades, and so on and protray them as being bought in gun shops in the US.

Liberals will swallow anything that fits their pre-conceived ideas.

 

[jerkface11]

I love the news stories that show pictures of automatic weapons, grenades, and so on and protray them as being bought in gun shops in the US

They probably did come from the ATF though.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Latin American Herald Tribune (Caracas, Venezula) wrote that a major source of cartel heavy weapons (full-auto, grenades, grenade launchers) came from corrupt military in Guatemala.

The Mexican authorities don't submit 80% or more of siezed guns to US traces. Only guns that appear to be US origin are submitted to traces. In 2009 that was about 7,000 guns of which ATF could trace 4,000. Of the 4,000 (of a total of over 30,000 guns siezed in 2009) 90% traced to US origin. How many were US gov't supplied to Mexican military or police is not published.

 

[publius]

How many were US gov't supplied to Mexican military or police is not published.

The lines between military/police and cartels can be a bit tough to draw down there. When we supply their government, there is a good chance of those arms being diverted to cartels.

 

[Sky]

Weird the Boarder Wars series was just more of the same but Fox News Hanity last night did do a big 30 minute old time type investigative report. It was pretty good as far as an investigation. It ain't over until it's over. If what I saw is true with some of the parties involved, they are not going to get off Scot free. Time will tell.

 

[we are not amused]

This story should be bigger than Watergate.
We have Government Officials deliberately allowing straw purchases of firearms, despite protest from gun store owners and the street agents, with the knowledge that they were going to Mexico. At the same time there was an orchestrated push from the Administration to shut down Gun Shows and restrict gun sales to Americans and institute a gun registration scheme due to running of American guns into Mexico.
I don't think you have to be paranoid to think there might be a connection between the two events.

 

[bhesler]

Here is another report of similar tactic possibly being used against a cooperating FFL in Indiana (Straw sales and sales to felons allowed, and then crackdown by ATF)

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...icate-atf-fbi-allowed-indiana-crime-gun-sales

It is looking harder and harder to consider this a rogue operation with unapproved tactics.

 

[Sky]

By Chuck Norris, World Net Daily
President Obama wants you to believe America's founders were in error when they gave citizens the right to bear arms. The administration and even their Mexican counterparts have manipulated public opinion to believe that the cartel drug wars are being fueled largely by American guns.
http://www.nramedia.org/t/187600/8552178/6734/0/

from NRA email

 

[xwray]

"90% of mexican drug cartel guns come from USA" I think it is hilarious how liberals are so easily duped by these types of stories. I have some liberal friends and they believe almost everything they read and hear, so long as it follows a certain predictable script.

I have to laugh at the liberals gullibility too.

Then I remember they are the ones making the laws these days.

Then I stop laughing and start crying...

 

[LAK]

I am amazed to see this referred to as a "failed gun program".

These were deliberate criminal acts of the highest order, designed to arm criminal gangs - private armies as such - and potentially terroristic groups, with the foreknowledge that they would inevitably used against citizens of the United States.

Added are the efforts to conceal this after the fact which presently clearly extends to the highest level of the Justice Department and several alphabet soup agencies.

If we do not see any indictments at the highest level of planning and control we can assume this extends to the highest government positions in both the Federal and Legislative branches.

Never has it been clearer too that that tax collection agency turned armed criminals the ATF needs to be disbanded entirely. Not "reformed" - eliminated. The FBI is more than capable of investigating any crimes falling under Federal jurisdiction.

 

[publius]

Conflicts of interest to result in no confidence vote for Phoenix US Atty office

In a move that signals more trouble for the US Attorney's office in Arizona, sources tells CBS News the Department of Justice is transferring two controversial weapons cases and a murder case to other districts. The cases are the Fast and Furious "gunwalker" case, a major grenade case, and the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. "The Department of Justice is giving a no-confidence vote to the US Attorney's office in Arizona," says one law enforcement source.

See also:

Lies and retaliation against whistleblower Forcelli in grenade case

"Lateral" promotions to headquarters are for stonewallers only. Whistleblowers will be sacrificed.

This guarantees that we will see more misbehavior from ATF in the future.

 

[Mike1234567]

Anyone in the San Antonio, TX area want to picket in an appropriate place? Hey, Austin and surrounding cities, your invited too!!

 

[publius]

Eric Holder says:

"The notion that somehow or other that this thing reaches into the upper levels of the Justice Department is something that, at this point, I don't think is supported by the facts," Holder told reporters.

So some people have a notion that ATF Supervisors did not throw away the entire rule book (according to Agent Canino), and that Phoenix US Attorneys did not make foreign policy with Mexico, without consulting their superiors in Washington, DC, but we do not have the facts to support that idea just yet.

That is certainly true. It's also certainly a non-denial denial.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If the attorney general knew about it, he committed a crime. If he didn't, he's incompetent. It's his job to know what goes on in his department.

 

[alsaqr]

Tracking guns found in Mexico transcends politics. For years the US has been concerned with illegal gun traffic to Mexico. Project Gunrunner was set up in 2006 to track US sold guns found in Mexico.

 

[Deanimator]

Tracking guns found in Mexico transcends politics. For years the US has been concerned with illegal gun traffic to Mexico. Project Gunrunner was set up in 2006 to track US sold guns found in Mexico.

... or at least that's what they want you to BELIEVE.

Even if it's true, the nature and purpose of the operation clearly changed with administrations.

Of course they didn't REALLY "track" them, DID they?

The current purpose is to justify further repressive gun controls.

 

[publius]

Tracking guns found in Mexico transcends politics. For years the US has been concerned with illegal gun traffic to Mexico. Project Gunrunner was set up in 2006 to track US sold guns found in Mexico.

And they tracked them right up until 2009, then something changed. There was a new policy, according to sworn testimony by Agent Dodson, among others.



Hmmm. He was ordered to continue watching the straw buyer while the guns left in the hands of an unknown third party. That is not tracking guns.

 

[blue_ridge]

This story should be bigger than Watergate.

No way, because the corrupt officials involved are liberal-socialists. If they were conservatives, the media would raise it to watergate-like intensity.

Hell, Clinton sold classified technology to China and it didn't draw Watergate levels of attention. What's worse, a President selling technology to our enemy for campaign money or a President eaves-dropping on his opponents campaign? The main stream media consists of journalism majors from liberal arts schools who now reside in Manhattan. The news they deliver will always be skewed away from reality.

 

[blue_ridge]

Hmmm. He was ordered to continue watching the straw buyer while the guns left in the hands of an unknown third party. That is not tracking guns.

I'm afraid Fast & Furious is even worse than the Feds knowingly allowing straw purchases to take place and guns to flow to Mexico. From an earlier article:

not only were your hard-earned dollars being used to purchase these guns, the main person being investigated for gun smuggling “was actually an FBI informant and former drug dealer who had been deported years ago.

According to sources inside the Justice Department, the ATF spent millions of dollars tracking a chief gun smuggler -- known as “Mr. Big” -- before discovering that he was in fact on the feds’ payroll (funded, again, by your tax dollars).

But why? That’s the recurring question. Why would the Obama Administration -- that is filled with anti-gun cronies -- knowingly approve the sales of firearms to bad guys? Why would they knowingly put thousands of guns “into the wrong hands,” when they’ve spent years advocating gun control laws to supposedly get guns “out of the wrong hands.”

Given that the ATF refused to work with Mexican authorities (when it came to tracking these guns) and frequently lost track of the firearms after they moved south of the border, it does not seem that bringing down drug kingpins was the real goal of Fast and Furious.

The better explanation is that the Obama Administration was using the influx of guns into Mexico -- and the resulting violence -- to clamor for increased gun controls here at home.

As stated by an Examiner.com article this April, “The Obama Administration, according to ATF agents who blew the whistle on the illegal plot, intended to use statistics concerning U.S. guns in Mexico to call for more stringent gun control.”

Also, now that the ATF Director has resigned, it is important to note the circumstances surrounding his departure:

(Director) Melson previously gave testimony to Congress in July that high level Department of Justice officials tried to limit his cooperation with the Congressional investigation. During that closed door testimony, Director Melson appeared with his own private attorney.