K31 swiss sporter?

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huntinfool87

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So I have a customer that owes me $300 for some work I've done to his long range gun. He can't pay but wants to trade me a k31 swiss rifle. Someone has put a shorter stock on it and it shoots the 308 round. If I take the deal I'd probably take it down and sport it out. Now before you get mad about doing this to an old mil gun take a breath. For one this gun has already been under the knife. For 2 this is a great way to keep history relevant In many gun cabinets. For me it's like having a 32 roadster would be cool but have a 32 roadster that was built to bootleg moonshine would also be cool. Anyway back to the gun I'd like to see some of these guns that have been worked on and any information would help. Like how difficult is it to drill and tap that receiver? If you have any I'd love to see some pics!
 
Personally an expensive project does not equal the $300 owed.

I would try to get something else out of him. If hes a friend I might consider it if I had previously considered sporterizing an odd duck... but $300 is $300

HB
 
If it's one of the few originally made in .308 you can sell it for a lot more than $300, even with a butchered or non-original stock.

If it's a conversion be careful, some of them were pretty shoddily done. Accuracy and even safety may be substandard. Check headspace, chamber and throat carefully. Then have him shoot 10 rounds of full power factory hunting ammo through it while you stand behind a thick wall or tree.

If you decide to proceed there's no point drilling and tapping it. There are excellent clamp on mounts available (Swiss Products comes to mind). "Scout" type mounts are out there as well, but I've never used one.

Be aware that anything but a forward mounted scope will have to be offset to one side since the rifle ejects straight up.

Whatever you do it's gonna be pretty heavy for a .308 hunting rifle.
 
I'm working on one this winter. Someone apparently tapped it for a scope without thinking about the top ejection. I put a RedDot on the front mounting point which worked out great. Their loss was my gain :)

Just gotta fit and finish the stock. I'll be using it in my deer stand this season.
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Sometimes you gotta take what you can but I would make him sweeten the deal with ammo or a scope of something. Honnestly, how long would it take for you to sell the Swiss for that $300. It's a milsport ! You can buy a new rifle for that $300. My bil owed me money that I knew I would never see so I accepted a sporterized MAS 36 in lieu of the $120 he owed me. That was back in 1981. Yeh, I got hosed but it was better than nothing. It did end up being a decent rifle and got me into C&R stuff.
 
Duster, that is a nice looking stock. Should be a pleasure to shoot. Is the red dot canted to the left or is it just my eyes. Is it still 7.5 or rechambered?
 
One thing to consider, as mentioned above, the K31 barrels have extensive machining to function at the chamber. There are no aftermarket barrels for it (outside of Switzerland maybe) and any alterations to make it work would probably exceed to value of the rifle--for example boring out and using the existing barrel at the breech end as a sleeve for another (gunsmith in NH does that). I restored a K31 recently and it took about one year of searching to get a used replacement barrel to fix a sporterized one and the barrel was pricey.

The Swiss 7.5 is broader at the case head and base diameter with a thicker rim than a .308 which makes it far more involved than a simple reaming job in a K31 to convert them safely to .308 and it cannot be easily done like a Mauser by setting the barrel back and rechambering due to the barrel's machining at the chamber. As mentioned by Swampman, I believe a few conversions/sporters were imported directly from Switzerland in .308 and maybe a few talented individuals made some adequate ones here either with imported barrels or some other such.

Here is a discussion of such on the Practical Machinist blog
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/swiss-k31-i-think-280228/

There are similar problems with MAS 36 .308 conversions because of similar issues in cartridge dimensions from the .308 (and the additional risk of the MAS barrel being too thin after setting the barrel back and rechambering). CAI botched a lot of them and I had to fix one after searching for about 3 years for some new old stock barrels.

I haven't tried to work a .308 dummy through my K11 or K31 carbines and probably won't due to possible damage to chambers and possibly getting a cartridge stuck. I should have tried it when I had the K31 barrel not mounted to the receiver. But I could see how a Bubba would simply ream the forward part of the chamber with the .308 reamer to allow one to fit a .308 in there. This would create an issue because the rear of the case would not be supported by the chamber--the problem there might not be the headspace from the bolt head to datum line but the swelling and possible case separations from an oversized rear of the chamber. Similar things were done with 7.7 Arisakas to allow a .30-06 to fire from it with predictable results.

IMHO, get a chamber cast as a minimum before agreeing to the swap.
 
Duster, that is a nice looking stock. Should be a pleasure to shoot. Is the red dot canted to the left or is it just my eyes. Is it still 7.5 or rechambered?

Hey nhcruffler,
Thanks, looking forward to getting the stock done. The gun is a tack driver in the original 7.5 x 55 Swiss chambering. It's a shame it was drilled/tapped, but I'll put the old girl to good use. The red dot is centered, just a weird camera angle.

Be well man
 
Idk if you close the deal altrsdy. However, few questions come to me.
Who made the barrel, quality, timing, chamber etc... it may be a danger bet.
Have you shot it, how is the accuracy. How the loading perform 1x1
Is anything else he can offer, I don't see a big win in your side, unless you are even already.
 
Idk if you close the deal altrsdy. However, few questions come to me.
Who made the barrel, quality, timing, chamber etc... it may be a danger bet.
Have you shot it, how is the accuracy. How the loading perform 1x1
Is anything else he can offer, I don't see a big win in your side, unless you are even already.

The barrel would be made by the Swiss military contractors--there might be some sporter barrels made in Switzerland but they are not available here except maybe as an imported whole rifle. The machining cuts on the k31 barrel breech end makes it difficult to alter issued barrels for converting cartridges without some pretty good machining skills due to the Swiss manufacturing precision. The one guy that does it in the U.S. uses old bored out K31 barrel stubs at the breech for their machining cuts to enclose a new barrel chambered in whatever cartridges fit the action. There is some discussion at the above link. The k31 bolt sleeves do allow some adjustment of bolt headspacing which is less of a problem than the specific barrel design. The 1911 and prior models of Swiss rifles are far easier to convert and their barrels can be set back/rechambered due to a relatively simple breech design but see below.

See Swiss rifle Q/A at http://swissrifles.com/sr/faq/

"Q. What about the K31s you mentioned in .308 and 30-06? Can I get one of those?If you can find one, sure. Just be sure of the source. Several companies, including Grünig & Elmiger (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grünig-Elmiger/561040110594791) and Hämmerli, used Schmidt type actions to produce sporting rifles in a variety of calibers. However, a number of 1911 rifles were converted to the .308 round in the 1960s. The 7.5x55 cartridge generates approximately 45,000 psi, .308 cartridges can generate well over 50,000 psi. If someone did a shoddy rechambering job, the results could be tragic."

Here is a picture of a rare Hammerli .22 LR designed to look and feel like a K31 rifle https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theswissriflesdotcommessageboard/haemmerli-kksd-551-t8122.html
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the...k31-rifles-in-the-early-1970s-t10885-s10.html

And a G&E match rifle made in .308 for shooting competitions
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the...-and-elmiger-cism-rifle-in-7-62x51-t3709.html

Given that 7.5 Swiss brass and .308 bullets can be now be purchased reasonably and handloaded to effectiveness, there is little reason, to rechamber these rifles in .308. Very little performance is to be gained and it is easy to compromise safety and reliability. Heck, even the magazines are going for over $50 for replacements and $100 or more for the original mags--bugger one up and they are hard to replace.
 
I should have expected this from this group. So guys I'm a gunsmith I know what I would be getting into and I do know of some after market mounts that deflect the casings to the side on ejection. Thanks for all your input.
 
The barrel would be made by the Swiss military contractors--there might be some sporter barrels made in Switzerland but they are not available here except maybe as an imported whole rifle. The machining cuts on the k31 barrel breech end makes it difficult to alter issued barrels for converting cartridges without some pretty good machining skills due to the Swiss manufacturing precision. The one guy that does it in the U.S. uses old bored out K31 barrel stubs at the breech for their machining cuts to enclose a new barrel chambered in whatever cartridges fit the action. There is some discussion at the above link. The k31 bolt sleeves do allow some adjustment of bolt headspacing which is less of a problem than the specific barrel design. The 1911 and prior models of Swiss rifles are far easier to convert and their barrels can be set back/rechambered due to a relatively simple breech design but see below.

See Swiss rifle Q/A at http://swissrifles.com/sr/faq/

"Q. What about the K31s you mentioned in .308 and 30-06? Can I get one of those?If you can find one, sure. Just be sure of the source. Several companies, including Grünig & Elmiger (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grünig-Elmiger/561040110594791) and Hämmerli, used Schmidt type actions to produce sporting rifles in a variety of calibers. However, a number of 1911 rifles were converted to the .308 round in the 1960s. The 7.5x55 cartridge generates approximately 45,000 psi, .308 cartridges can generate well over 50,000 psi. If someone did a shoddy rechambering job, the results could be tragic."

Here is a picture of a rare Hammerli .22 LR designed to look and feel like a K31 rifle https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theswissriflesdotcommessageboard/haemmerli-kksd-551-t8122.html
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the...k31-rifles-in-the-early-1970s-t10885-s10.html

And a G&E match rifle made in .308 for shooting competitions
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the...-and-elmiger-cism-rifle-in-7-62x51-t3709.html

Given that 7.5 Swiss brass and .308 bullets can be now be purchased reasonably and handloaded to effectiveness, there is little reason, to rechamber these rifles in .308. Very little performance is to be gained and it is easy to compromise safety and reliability. Heck, even the magazines are going for over $50 for replacements and $100 or more for the original mags--bugger one up and they are hard to replace.
I guess I dont see the relevance of your links untreated to the post. But if you are just wanting to show them off that's cool you should make your own post I'm sure many would like that topic also. I do not know the history of this rifle I have put about 30 rounds down it. The stock has been chopped and is now cracked. The barrel has been threaded and now has a break on it. I'm a gunsmith and I've gone over the gun for safety issues when this guy baught it at a pawn shop. My issue is this as I stated before I'm not sure how hard it would be to drill and tap the action for a rock solid base with the deflector. Also if I thought this guy would eventually cover his bill I would wait and if I wanted a k31 this would be the last one I would want because i could go get a milsurp for just about the same money but i would feel bad cutting one of them up. Thanks for your input
 
I should have expected this from this group. So guys I'm a gunsmith I know what I would be getting into and I do know of some after market mounts that deflect the casings to the side on ejection...
Then why did you bother asking "this group"?

Why didn't you just contact the manufacturer of one of the deflecting scope mounts you "know of"?

I'm not a gunsmith, but it seems to me that the company making a scope mount is probably going to be the best source of information on how to install it.
 
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Then why did you bother asking "this group"?

Why didn't you just contact the manufacturer of one of the deflecting scope mounts you "know of"?

I'm not a gunsmith, but it seems to me that the company making a scope mount is probably going to be the best source of information on how to install it.
Yeah lol they tell you to drill and tap it. Do you think they are going to give you advice on how to drill holes in your gun? Lol no there are liability issues with that.
 
So I have a customer that owes me $300 for some work I've done to his long range gun. He can't pay but wants to trade me a k31 swiss rifle. Someone has put a shorter stock on it and it shoots the 308 round. If I take the deal I'd probably take it down and sport it out. Now before you get mad about doing this to an old mil gun take a breath. For one this gun has already been under the knife. For 2 this is a great way to keep history relevant In many gun cabinets. For me it's like having a 32 roadster would be cool but have a 32 roadster that was built to bootleg moonshine would also be cool. Anyway back to the gun I'd like to see some of these guns that have been worked on and any information would help. Like how difficult is it to drill and tap that receiver? If you have any I'd love to see some pics!
Where is it marked 308? If its only had its stock cut, but all else is correct, it may be one of the 7.62x51 match rifles made which are quite rare. They look identical to a normal k31 apart from the chambering
 
No someone also threaded the barrel

What does that have to do with anything? I thread sporterized milsurps all the time, they still have their original chambers when I'm done. Heck, frequently I don't even unscrew barrels from receivers, not worth the risk of twisting receivers with corroded and/or over-torqued barrels from ham-fisted installers of wartime manufacture when I can stick the whole barreled action in my 22" cat's head. Just did a SMLE No.4 Mk I the other day. Dude also had me put a forward pic rail on the barrel. Still fires .303 Brit.
 
What does that have to do with anything? I thread sporterized milsurps all the time, they still have their original chambers when I'm done. Heck, frequently I don't even unscrew barrels from receivers, not worth the risk of twisting receivers with corroded and/or over-torqued barrels from ham-fisted installers of wartime manufacture when I can stick the whole barreled action in my 22" cat's head. Just did a SMLE No.4 Mk I the other day. Dude also had me put a forward pic rail on the barrel. Still fires .303 Brit.
You clearly didnt read the whole conversation. I'm not bothered by the threaded barrel. I'm just saying the gun is past the point of making it original agian and I (if I get it) will be sporting it out. Some ppl just cant stomach the thought of sporting out old mil surp. Every post I've made here has had ppl demanding I leave them alone or put them back to original. I have a k98 in 280 and a 6.5x55 that where done back in the 50s and 60s they are by far my best guns.
 
You clearly didnt read the whole conversation. I'm not bothered by the threaded barrel. I'm just saying the gun is past the point of making it original agian and I (if I get it) will be sporting it out. Some ppl just cant stomach the thought of sporting out old mil surp. Every post I've made here has had ppl demanding I leave them alone or put them back to original. I have a k98 in 280 and a 6.5x55 that where done back in the 50s and 60s they are by far my best guns.

It just read as though your determination that is was rechambered to .308 as opposed to originally a 7.62x51 barrel was based on muzzle threading.

I don't care what people do with their own milsurps. Some are better as sporters, especially if they don't have much value. My wife's next rifle may well be a sporterized 1893, 1895 or 1916 Mauser in the original 7x57 chambering because they can still be had for peanuts and I like projects.
 
It just read as though your determination that is was rechambered to .308 as opposed to originally a 7.62x51 barrel was based on muzzle threading.

I don't care what people do with their own milsurps. Some are better as sporters, especially if they don't have much value. My wife's next rifle may well be a sporterized 1893, 1895 or 1916 Mauser in the original 7x57 chambering because they can still be had for peanuts and I like projects.

I wasnt talking about you just simply saying what happens when you talk about that kind of stuff here. I had to take one of my old post down because some ppl got so mad that had my k98 lol it was sporterized before my mom was even born but somehow I'm the bad guy for hunting deer with it lol
 
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