Kibler Kit Questions

[HarryB]

Not wishing to hijack either of the two beautiful thread going on here, but wow, what beautiful rifles!

It seems like the Pedersoli and Lyman rifles are in short supply and the other builders are well north of 2 grand. The Kibler kits definitely have my attention.

How much specialized work (thinking of metal fitting) goes into a finished rifle. I'm somewhat competent and assembled a TC Hawken some years back for a friend.

The Colonial is much more appealing than the Pennsylvania flintlock rifle.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

From the look of it most of the inletting is done. Kibler is basically doing 98% of the hard work and leaving just a tiny bit of final fitting. It looks like the kit is great beginner to intermediate project where the toughest parts are done and the worst thing you do is try decide on final finish. Overall the quality looks really good plus the rifle doesn't look like a production gun.

 

[Lefty38-55]

To be clear ... the metal work required is 95% finishing ... not fitting.

Fitting - Like with the brass buttplate on the Colonial rifle, there is a bit of fitting of the dovetail feature (forms the slide for the patchbox lid) and spring lock piece (that holds the lid shut). But, Jim's online videos show this all in detail. If you are OK handy with hand tools, and watch his videos once or twice all the way through - you'll get it. Your 1st viewing gives you the scope of what you're trying to accomplish, then you'll absorb minute details for specific points when watched again. There is a little fitting to seat the muzzle cap, but is also extremely well shown in his YouTube videos.

Finishing - The brass parts need to be filed and sanded (metal paper) to your degree of desired finish. Same with the steel on the lock. Again, all VERY WELL explained in Jim's online videos. To me, the brass finishing was the worst part of the job; it's not hard, just tedious ... I now HATE finishing brass! You will need to draw file the steel barrel and I can tell you it is WELL WORTH IT to buy the $10 to $12 Bahco brand file he recommends, that can be bought on Amazon. I thought that I had good files for draw filing on hand, but let me tell you ... a new Bahco one filed a flat in one 5th of the time using mine! They are amazing files and about 4 of my friends bought them just based on my observations alone!

For a simple metal finish, use cold blue on a clean barrel and rub it back to be a dark or light gray using fine ScotchBrite - whatever suits your fancy.

To be honest - his locks are superior - a completed Kibler is 2-3X the 'quality' of a factory longrifle! And you really can't mess it up as long as you thoroughly read through his instructions before starting, then follow along with his instructions/videos and go at YOUR pace. PM me for assistance or even contact Jim directly. He even actively responds to build posts and/or questions over on another MZL'ing Forum, but I won't post that link here out of respect for this fine Site.

Inletting - On the Colonial build I had, it was mostly using a SHARP 1/4" wide chisel to form a true square corner where needed on the inlets, like at the end of the breech plug tang or trigger plate, as his CNC cutting tool only forms a 1/32" radius. As a former GE Aircraft Engines-trained machinist (a true machinist, not just that of a CNC push button operator) I remain EXTREMELY impressed with the degree of precision that Jim Kibler has achieved on a wood product!

 

[HarryB]

Thank you @Lefty38-55 for the clarifications. Once I get past the start of school think I am going to have a great project to look forward to.

 

[.38 Special]

My experience - with a single example - is that the gun almost can be put together without any real metal or woodwork at all. It's very close to being a matter of just attaching parts together with a screwdriver. The end result wouldn't look that great, but it would be a functional rifle.

So as @Lefty38-55 points out, the great majority of the work is essentially cosmetic: draw filing the barrel, sanding the wood, polishing the brass, and applying finishes. I put in a few dozen hours on mine - many of which were spent correcting my own screw-ups - and now figure the same or better result would require about ten hours. (My rifle is essentially done, and I will update the thread in a day or two, to include thoughts on things I would do differently - more simply, in just about every case - were I to start over again.)

The short version is that anyone who can install a shelf or change his own oil can build one of these kits, and the result will be far better than anything available from Italy. I really wish I had my money and time back from all the Italian flintlocks I've bought and fixed, and can't imagine ever buying another one.