KTR-03S Return to Zero problem

[Coronach]

Well. I always wondered just how stable and repeatable the zero was from those KTR dustcover sights. I guess I'm finding out.

A while back I bought a KTR, and have only shot it a few times since then (a sin, I know. I'm busy, and live in a city). Each time I cleaned it afterwards, and the sights seem to return to zero OK on my next outing. The dustcover, however, was a serious PITA to remove (MUCH harder than the dustcover on my Vepr or SAR-1). As time wore on, the dustcover either became easier to remove, or I simply got the hang of it more. You could never call it easy to take on and off, there was zero wobble, no play, no flex, no nothing. It is, frankly, pretty solid.

Well.

I lugged the KTR out to the range today and confirmed zero with my Aimpoint, mounted on the dustcover rail. It was several inches off, at 75 yards.

Not good.

However, there are a couple possible reasons, and a few jumped to mind:

1. Dustcover not retaining zero
2. Aimpoint QD mount not retaining zero
3. Aimpoint is messed up (technical jargon)
4. Someone fiddled with the Aimpoint dials (my dad is a notorious fiddler)
5. The Aimpoint and/or dustcover got bumped hard
6. Gremlins

So, I figured that I might as well take the aimpoint off and check the irons. They, too, seemed to be off. that seemed to eliminate some of the causes. I decided to do a real quick test.

I dialed in the irons, confirmed this by shooting a few nice tight groups, then cleared the rifle and popped off the dustcover. I then popped the dustcover back on, confirmed that it was on tightly and securely, then shot another set of groups.

Each was 2" low and 1" to the left. At 75 yards.

This would leave #1 and #6 on my list of possible causes, and I'm leaning heavily towards #1.

Questions:

1. Anyone with a KTR experience this?
2. Am I wrong to be expecting repeatable zero from a dustcover sight?
3. Suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[hartzpad]

That is interesting. While I've only had my KTR-03S for about 2 weeks now, I have shot it a few times and have removed the dust cover a few times as well and it has not lost its zero, in fact, I amazed at what I can hit with it, it is such an improvement over the standard AK sights that it is amazing. Please let me know if you figure out what your problem is.

One thing I have noticed is that the front corner edge of the dust cover has been rubbing on the bolt's charging handle and wearing the paint off, do you have this problem?

 

[Coronach]

Ohyeah.

The rifle is quite accurate, and the sights are simply great. However, I find them to be of limited utility if they won't rezero reliably. I guess I can always go with a Ultimak rail for the gas tube, but that seems silly on a rifle with a supposedly great rear-mounted sight system.

Mike

 

[MechAg94]

I noted a similar problem with my side mounted scope mount. About the same kind of change. I guess I could just avoid cleaning, but I hate to do that. I could still get my bore snake through it without taking everything off.

 

[deadly50bmg]

Mike, its not always your first guess.

I've experienced this before and figured it out ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Its Gremlins

 

[Coronach]

 

[MAUSER88]

I've only got a cheap Tasco Pro-Point on mine. It has no problem returning to zero when I take off the top cover. Not sure as to why yours doesn't.

 

[Coronach]

I note:

1. Mine did return to zero quite nicely for a while. Then I noticed that the process of replacing the dustcover was no longer as profanity-laced as it used to be...about the same time that it was not rezeroing. Coincidence? Maybe. Me simply getting more adept at getting it to snap back in place? Maybe. A part of the problem? Again, maybe.

2. You have a KTR-03V, and I have a -S. It is possible that the Vepr receiver has a slightly better attachment system, or is better at assuring that he dustcover returns to the proper place each time.

Mike

 

[Coronach]

One thing I have noticed is that the front corner edge of the dust cover has been rubbing on the bolt's charging handle and wearing the paint off, do you have this problem?

Missed this.

No, I've noted no wear on the charging handle, but I have noted that the gas piston (or...well...the part of the bolt that connects to the gas piston, I guess) has scraped off all of its finish in one section, either on the interior of the dustcover or (more likely) on the interior of the gas tube. I have not noted this on my SAR (mostly because of the lack of real finish on this part) or my Vepr (I have not fired this one as much). So, it might be normal. Or, it might not.

Mike

 

[Tokugawa]

you folks with a vepr and a ktr- will the ktr dust cover/sight fit a vepr? I hate the stock vepr rear sight and would love to have a peep reciever sight, like the ktr or valmet.

 

[Coronach]

I'll check for you, Tokugawa, but I have my doubts.

1. The KTR seems to use a really close-clearance groove in the rear of the gas tube to link up with the front of the dustcover. From memory it is unlike the groove in a standard AK/Vepr. At best, I'm guessing it will fit, but not as tightly.

2. The KTR's sight seems to sit at a different height than a standard AK sight.

I'll pull out my rifles later and take a look for you. Be aware, though, Krebs makes a AR-15 style sight that is designed to be mounted to an existing dustcover. Last time I checked, it was listed on their websight as "under revision", but AFAIK it will be reintroduced. I've heard many people singing their praises.

By way of an update:

I have decided to go optics-free with this rifle, at least for the moment. The Aimpoint is being retasked to a different rifle, the KTR's rear irons don't fold down (thus they either require raised rings or get in the way), and it seems a pity to not use the rifle's very nice irons. I have hopes that I can get them to start re-zeroing, or I will at the very least start exploring just how long an AK can run without cleaning.

In truth, I'll probably just clean and rezero every few hundred rounds. Shouldn't be a problem. It is a disappointment, though.

Mike

 

[MechAg94]

I got a BP02 side mount rail on my Vepr K with a cheap Simmons 1.5-5X scope. I like the set up. The point of aim moved on me after reinstalling the mount the second time I had it out punching paper. I was shooting clays on the side of a hill at 100 yards last weekend and it was just as accurate as I needed to be to hit the clays. It may have moved back to the original point of aim. I had it removed for a few shots to try to irons, but reinstalled it and kept firing without missing a beat.

Sorry that this is not quite on topic. This was my solution to the rear sight on my Vepr. It looks really cool also.