lasers

[mallard044]

A fellow at work today, asked me about lasers. I told him I was totally ignorent on the subject. First off, I told him to go to the high road and ask, but he got my curiosity up ,and thought I would ask the same question?? What are the pros and cons of a laser???? Whats your thinkiing!

 

[captain awesome]

Pro; you can shoot from almost any position and know where your round is going to hit
Con; batteries, and it doesn't promote proficiency with standard sights(though it will probably help you with controlling your stability, as you can see all those little movements and twitches quite well with a laser)

 

[jad0110]

+: IMHO, I hear they are an excellent training aid (haven't tried it, but should), particularly when working on your trigger control and point shooting skills. At night with a relatively stationary baddie, the dot can be much easier to see than standard sights.

-: I have perfect 20/20 vision, and in the day time outdoors, that little dot can be difficult to see. Much more difficult than just using the sights. Night or day, if the bad guy is moving rapidly, trying to see that dot in all the chaos is probably going to be much harder than one realizes. One would probably be better off point shooting or focusing on the front sight (your pick based on your skills).

Just my thoughts, worth what you paid for them.

 

[tryshoot]

Have them on my ar-15, LCP 380, and s&w 642. I love them, but probably rely on them too much. Esp the LCP.

 

[browningguy]

I have one on a XD9 and one on a Keltec P32, they work great on a defensive weapon. Poor light is when you use them, I can't even imagine anyone would try to use them in full daylight so that shouldn't be an issue. When you can't see your regular sights good enough you can see the laser really well.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I have a lasermax on my Glock 19. For what it is, I love it (the laser). I however, don't recommend the lasermax guide rod.

As far as shooting when light isn't in great supply or from awkward positions, it works perfectly. It is no substitute for knowing how to shoot with your sights though.


I am hoping to get CTC grips for my M&P here soon.

 

[LightningMan]

I use them as a training aid, mostly trigger control. Practice holding lazer on target while squeezing trigger. Most of the time I can tell what I'm doing wrong if I'm not hitting the mark. For me, I have a tendency to pull down on my shots, when shooting at a more rapid pace. FWIW, I do have a Virdian Green Lazer on my home defence pistol, along with a good flash-light on my night stand. LM

 

[StrawHat]

I have not found lasers to be very effective for anything. When I was the training officer for my dept we tested all sorts of stuff and basically, if you can't hit with the sights, the laser is not going to help you much. The laser coincides with trajectory only at two points, so for all other ranges, you still need to know where your firearm hits. The money you spend on the laser would be better spent on practice.

 

[littlebluevette]

I agree and would add buy a good set of night sights instead.

 

[kb58]

+: IMHO, I hear they are an excellent training aid (haven't tried it, but should), particularly when working on your trigger control and point shooting skills...

I recently went through this. I ended up buying a green laser for training because I'm all over the place with my .45. It was VERY revealing how the dot would move right before the pistol went off, showing that I was indeed flinching. And it was equally enlightening how simply dry-firing the pistol was also causing me to pull it off-target. For me, I felt it was worth it just for that knowledge alone. Not sure if I'll keep it once I've trained myself away from flinching/pulling the shot, though it seems helpful for a home-defense setup.

Oh and I highly recommend the green laser instead of red if you plan on using it outdoors, WAY more visible.

 

[kb58]

...The laser coincides with trajectory only at two points, so for all other ranges, you still need to know where your firearm hits.

This is true of any sight, laser or iron.

 

[browningguy]

It's hard for me to imagine why people want to consider a laser as a substitue for learning to shoot, that would just be ignorant.

A laser is a tool, but I'm sure there are still people who think optics on rifles are just a passing fad also. But the facts are that "I" can shoot faster and more accuratly in low light with a laser than without one. We shoot pretty regularly in low light at a firends ranch just north of town so I do have some experience with it. Now I've only been shooting regularly since 1963 when I started in NRA smallbore competition, and shot some bullseye pistol in the Navy in the mid 70's, so maybe I just don't know how to shoot yet.

 

[allaroundhunter]

The laser coincides with trajectory only at two points, so for all other ranges, you still need to know where your firearm hits. The money you spend on the laser would be better spent on practice.

This is true, but once you have it zeroed at some distance within 20 yards, it will hit close enough that it will be hard to tell a difference. For any self defense range, that laser will be close enough to point of impact that it will be effective.

 

[B!ngo]

I happen to like this guy. I suspect he's got some actual experience and has a great prezo style (for me anyway, but I was born in NY and spent time in the USN).
Anyway, I think he's got some useful perspective on separating out the use of lasers, night sights and lights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ynm...DvjVQa1PpcFP90Nu-YBmGvQ6oWAKddVs84HoIwmb5tDM=

 

[mallard044]

Thanks for all the knowledgeable insight on the subject, I always learn alot on this site! Especially when you know nothing about the subject,and alot of times when you think you do!!

 

[skt239]

I love my Crimson Trace and will put one on any gun I carry in the future. I learned point shooting before I ever had a laser so it's not a crutch of any kind. It's a excellent training device for trigger control, point shooting and muzzle discipline for new shooters. You get a lot more out of any dry practice you do when using a laser. I would highly recommend one for any gun you carry.

A lot of people like to say that lasers make a great intimidation device in a fight. The logic being that once the assailant sees the red beam, they soil themselves and beg for your mercy. This, IMO, is a dangerous misconception that can get you in a lot of trouble, both with the law and assailant.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Its not a cure for not knowing how to shoot. You need to practice with it and with out it. You need to have at least some minimal skills with point shooting to get a lot out of it. Dry firing and practice draws with it will help gain those skills. Its not good for searching for a small target the way you can with iron sights. For instance like a bottle sitting on a fence post with an open field behind it. You will spend a lot of time trying to find the dot. Which is why you need some point shooting skills. The dot will not seek the target, you need enough skill to put the laser on the target then visually adjust it. A good point shooter is faster than the laser. If you have just been knocked on your butt by some one intending bad things for you its probably the best thing you could use to aim a good shot. A laser will tell you a lot about how you shoot. Any pistol I carry will have one on it. I'd rather have a red dot on a rifle. I suspect in the long run that will be true for pistols as well but we are not there yet.

 

[parkerdude]

I haven't played with a laser on a handgun, but after I mounted a weapon light on my AR-15, I thought about adding a laser too .

More as an exercise than something I needed, I used to play around with building hand-held lasers.

First things first. A >5mW laser is visible as ambient light diminishes, and green is probably 6 or 7 times more visible than red, but a 200mW - 650mW, 650nM (red), handheld laser is visible ANY TIME, and at greater distances than I'd think to shoot at.

I'd played with a mere 30mW, 532nM (green), laser was also perfectly visible in broad daylight too, at night you can see the beam the whole way, (several hundred yards).

The problem was the responsibility of shining a laser around that was quite capable of blinding someone in WAY under 1 second of exposure, (reflections aren't much better). Most shop-made / hobbyist lasers cause damage through the infra-red spectrum and don't invoke a blink reflex.

These hand-held lasers posed a credible hazard just laying around the shop, requiring protective goggles. Anyone picking it up doesn't realize they are holding something much more dangerous than a loaded gun because they don't know how powerful it really is.

Anyway, I think a laser sight is a great CQB low-light sight.

If I had a tactical laser mounted on a weapon, the only intimidation would be to the rest of the group of BGs witnessing how well the sight worked on the first guy.

YMMV