I just saw an old episode of "Sin & Secrets" where they went over the case of the death of Gerald "Cody" Boyd by Kathy Denson in 2002. Apparently she used an "antique" .44 caliber BP revolver to kill him. I don't know if it was really an original or not, used in the killing, but the show used a Colt 1860 Army as the prop. I thought it interesting that someone was purposely killed/murdered with a BP revolver and wondered if this was possibly the last time it happened.
Last person purposely killed with a BP revolver?
- Thread starter ClemBert
- Start date
- Status
zimmerstutzen
Member
Don't know about a revolver, but I had an opportunity to talk with a guy at the state police crime lab in Maryland many years ago. (about 1985) He claimed that they had at least six or seven crimes a year committed with old or old style black powder guns. They had at least one murder during his career with a flint lock pistol. (An original, something about wealthy eccentric old timers got in a tiff and shooting at each other inside the family mansion.)
Tommygunn
Member
It's happened a few times. Last I heard -- and I have forgotten the names of the people involved -- was done with a .31 caliber Colt pocket type gun like an 1848/9.
Supposedly it was direct to the heart at close range and the victim was D.R.T.
So apparantly these old pocket guns aren't to be sneezed at.
Supposedly it was direct to the heart at close range and the victim was D.R.T.
So apparantly these old pocket guns aren't to be sneezed at.
Dave Markowitz
Member
Sometime in the last 25 years or so, a man was murdered in the Philly 'burbs and the weapon used was a Ruger Old Army.
HUnter58
Member
Here where I live, in 2006 we had a man kill his wife and then had a standoff with the police. He used a 1858 remington replica.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Seems unlikely.
With the popularity of CASS, and black powder shooting in general.
And even a convicted felon can buy a BP firearm at Cabala's or Bass Pro without a background check?
That one isn't the last, by several shootings since then I betcha.
rc
loose noose
Member
After a brief stand-off near a railroad tracks, in about 1971-1972, took a Colt Replica 1860 model from a guy that just robbed a drug store, and found out he had shot his girlfriend with it, just prior to the robbery. I believe she lived to testify against him. Oh BTW it was a functional firing arm also, and it had 4 chambers were still loaded.
AlexanderA
Member
I knew a guy, a Civil War reenactor, that committed suicide using a percussion revolver. This was in the late 1980's.
Jim NE
Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2011
- Messages
- 1,888
Yeah, I'm surprised I don't hear about MORE BP shootings.
A guy who used to come into my place of business was a convicted felon, and he had a whole slew of black powder weapons because of their under-the-radar legal status. I believe they are often the "go to" weapons for those who've been in prison. Along with big, mean pitbulls.
Not trying to characterize owners of BP weapons or PB dogs, but this has been my impression. I presume the vast majority of black powder folks are in it for the fun and history (unless they start posting threads about using .44 cap and ball revolvers exclusively for defense...then I start to get a bit suspicious.)
Anyway, our state has reconsidered the legality of ex-convicts owning ANY kind of weapon - Black powder, crossbows, longbows, etc. The guy who used to come into my business complained about it several years ago. Don't know exactly what was decided. I think they took the approach of considering it a parole violation if apprehended rather than background checks for (or registering of) BP guns.
A guy who used to come into my place of business was a convicted felon, and he had a whole slew of black powder weapons because of their under-the-radar legal status. I believe they are often the "go to" weapons for those who've been in prison. Along with big, mean pitbulls.
Not trying to characterize owners of BP weapons or PB dogs, but this has been my impression. I presume the vast majority of black powder folks are in it for the fun and history (unless they start posting threads about using .44 cap and ball revolvers exclusively for defense...then I start to get a bit suspicious.)
Anyway, our state has reconsidered the legality of ex-convicts owning ANY kind of weapon - Black powder, crossbows, longbows, etc. The guy who used to come into my business complained about it several years ago. Don't know exactly what was decided. I think they took the approach of considering it a parole violation if apprehended rather than background checks for (or registering of) BP guns.
scrat
Member
hard to trace. NO GPR Gun Powder Residue.
I guess with the absence of nitrocellulose you cant trace black powder. Meaning if you were to shoot a smokeless gun say several shots then the police check you for gun powder residue you would light up like a candle. Take a different guy shoot several rounds of black powder. Same police checks you out. Nothing comes up. Heck use a smooth bore and they wouldnt even be able to trace where the shot came from or even do any ballistics especially if a patch was used. I guess shooting anything with a sabot would do the same if they could find the plastic sabot that may be the only thing you could possible trace depending on how much it melted. Otherwise it would be a no go. Get the spent bullet and it would be as clean as a whistle.
I guess with the absence of nitrocellulose you cant trace black powder. Meaning if you were to shoot a smokeless gun say several shots then the police check you for gun powder residue you would light up like a candle. Take a different guy shoot several rounds of black powder. Same police checks you out. Nothing comes up. Heck use a smooth bore and they wouldnt even be able to trace where the shot came from or even do any ballistics especially if a patch was used. I guess shooting anything with a sabot would do the same if they could find the plastic sabot that may be the only thing you could possible trace depending on how much it melted. Otherwise it would be a no go. Get the spent bullet and it would be as clean as a whistle.
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
few years back a feller hunting deer during the muzleload season here in NC shot (not purposely he testified in court) an 'undocumented alien' that was gathering galax near said hunters stand. filled him full of buckshot from a 12ga bp muzzleloader at relatively short range.
the 'alien' was wearing a broad belt or waistband make from a deer skin hair still on it.
just couple-3 years back here in the NF
the hunter was cleared of the charges by the jury
the 'alien' was wearing a broad belt or waistband make from a deer skin hair still on it.
just couple-3 years back here in the NF
the hunter was cleared of the charges by the jury
hardway
Member
This happened just north of me a couple years back, they didn't say what make the cap and ball pistol was, other than it being a .44 caliber.
The whole community got behind the shooter during and after the trial, but unfortunately the guy is currently doing time.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100406/ARTICLES/100409728
The whole community got behind the shooter during and after the trial, but unfortunately the guy is currently doing time.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100406/ARTICLES/100409728
Last edited:
hardway
Member
Damn I want a Howdah! Those things are so cool!
I'm always concerned that I might become the last person killed with a Black Powder pistol. I doubt my wife would actually shoot me with one, but there's always the fear that she'd beat me to death with one if I don't stop buying them.
Seriously though, I've read over the years where they have been used effectively both in self-defense (not a fan of that idea) and offensively. Although I don't condone the idea of a Black Powder self defense gun I think we all realize that they will get the job done.
Seriously though, I've read over the years where they have been used effectively both in self-defense (not a fan of that idea) and offensively. Although I don't condone the idea of a Black Powder self defense gun I think we all realize that they will get the job done.
armed robbery and murder with a BP pistol
Occurred in my home town in about 1980.
Liquor Store across the street from where my "little" brother was employed.
In broad daylight, the perp walked in, announced a robbery to the person working, and it was that person's 21st birthday. He had been working in the stock room for a couple of years, but only on the day of the event was he authorized to ring up sales.
The clerk was apparently compliant, but was shot in the chest for his cooperation. I recall from news reporting that the weapon was a .50 or .54 caliber cap and ball or flintlock. (long time ago...)
That evening, I took a spare handgun to my brother's store. He knew very well how to use it.
Best I recall, there was never an arrest.
Bad neighborhood. I now recall that one evening, in front of my brother's store, a sleazebag told me he was going to take my wallet... until he saw my Colt. He disappeared.
Occurred in my home town in about 1980.
Liquor Store across the street from where my "little" brother was employed.
In broad daylight, the perp walked in, announced a robbery to the person working, and it was that person's 21st birthday. He had been working in the stock room for a couple of years, but only on the day of the event was he authorized to ring up sales.
The clerk was apparently compliant, but was shot in the chest for his cooperation. I recall from news reporting that the weapon was a .50 or .54 caliber cap and ball or flintlock. (long time ago...)
That evening, I took a spare handgun to my brother's store. He knew very well how to use it.
Best I recall, there was never an arrest.
Bad neighborhood. I now recall that one evening, in front of my brother's store, a sleazebag told me he was going to take my wallet... until he saw my Colt. He disappeared.
I would think a decent amount with the criminals going towards them if they can't get a regular gun illegally off the street.
An FYI, it is still illegal for a felon to own a BP firearm it's just not deemed worth tracking like modern firearms. If I'm not mistaken a gun over 100 years old is considered an antique and then doesn't require a background check. Will make things interesting if the law doesn't get changed and we started getting into modern guns that are antiques.
An FYI, it is still illegal for a felon to own a BP firearm it's just not deemed worth tracking like modern firearms. If I'm not mistaken a gun over 100 years old is considered an antique and then doesn't require a background check. Will make things interesting if the law doesn't get changed and we started getting into modern guns that are antiques.
Dave Markowitz
Member
Now that you mention it, you're right. I'm only about 5 or 6 miles from where it happened.
My worry with carrying a Cap and Ball revolver as a carry gun is the Caps. I am very carefull fitting my caps and still have had them fall off from recoil etc.The problm is that the other guy might have a modern cartrige gun and while I am fumbling and trying to advance the cylinder... Otherwise,
I think a C&B Revolver is a viable defense tool.
ZVP
I think a C&B Revolver is a viable defense tool.
ZVP
BHP FAN
Member
Yup. If yer caps are falling off yer nipples, ye need to get better fitting nipples or caps.
Remington #10s seem to fit the repros perfectly.
You can get aftermarket nipples that fit #11 caps perfectly. I've never had #10 Remington caps fall off my Italian replica nipples.
#11s don't fall off my ROA nipples, or the TC nipples I put on the Howdah.
Lucky for us, caps falling off the nips is an easy problem to correct.
Remington #10s seem to fit the repros perfectly.
You can get aftermarket nipples that fit #11 caps perfectly. I've never had #10 Remington caps fall off my Italian replica nipples.
#11s don't fall off my ROA nipples, or the TC nipples I put on the Howdah.
Lucky for us, caps falling off the nips is an easy problem to correct.
- Status