LCP-II: Inferior?

[Jeb Stuart]

He is hardly a idiot. In fact one of the most respected holster makers around. Just because you do not agree with him is no reason to resort to this kind of remark. Many experienced Pocket gun shooters that have been shooting for years totally agree with him.He took a stand to do what he thinks is right. And I would take a bet that many have shot more ammo downrange in a year than you will in a life time. How about we refrain from the name calling. If your credentials are so much better than we would love to hear them.

 

[Fiv3r]

The greatest attribute to the LCP was the massive amount of marketing. Ruger must have spent a billion dollars on ads. Here you have a gun that has lousy sights, No ability to add night sights if you desire, a aluminum frame, lousy recoil, no double strike capability, and for gosh sake Ruger, get on the band wagon and get with a modular grip frame. Make the gun all stainless steel, beef up the receiver. Make it a gun you can actually hand down to another generation, a gun that can go the course with thousands of rounds down range. Make the LCP a tank, like other Ruger Products, not a throw away gun.

I think the market has spoken. No amount of advertising alone could keep the LCP design chugging along as one of Ruger's best selling guns for nearly a decade if they weren't what people wanted. What the market wants is a lightweight compact pistol. I agree, a Ruger-tough .380 made out of steel would be a fun shooter, but I don't want all the added weight in a pocket pistol, personally. Gimme a Ruger Single Action as heavy as Thor's hammer, sure. However, when I'm going lightweight, I want to go as light as possible and keep the features I want.

Personally, and this is worth exactly two pennies, I could take or leave modular grip frames. I see them as an armorer's friend when it comes to LEO/Military guns that can be easily modified for the needed role or at the very least to easily scrub out the firing system. I think it's really neat on my SIG 320, but in a pocket pistol I don't see much of a draw. Then again, I could be totally wrong.

Double strike capability would be nice, but I'm just happy to see the LCP II lock back on the last round. I will say that the LCP II has MUCH better sights than the original if not as good as the custom model. They should have at least white dotted them though. Even thought the sights are much more serviceable, they are black on black and tough to pick up. I painted my front sight with some of my daughter's nail polish to help.

Double Strike on a gun this size scares me a bit. Beretta warns against "excessive" dry firing the Pico, which I think is a very well built little pistol. However, I have seen a couple of videos of the firing pin breaking on those. Maybe keeping the LCP from being a click-click-click gun, they guard against hammer/firing pin wear? I dunno. I really liked my Pico, but Beretta only offers a couple year warranty on the guns. It kind of soured me a bit when I bought a brand new gun from Academy a couple of months after the Pico got the upgrade, and Beretta said it would still cost me $50 to send it in and wouldn't budge on it. Ruger would have just sent me a label, I think. Speculating, of course, but given the track record I would say that's fair to infer. The Pico, to be fair, is nicer than the LCP in any flavor. Soft shooting, accurate, well made. Just tough to rack and the mentioned potential firing pin issue.

The LCP is an affordable, comfortably carried quality gun. I don't think anyone would wear one out mostly due to the fact that its not designed to be pleasant to shoot all day as it's purpose is to be a gun so convenient that you'll actually have it on your person when your bacon needs saving. On top of that, it comes with the ol' Ruger Handshake non-warranty. If I manage to run mine ragged, I will feel it was $200 well spent. If a break a spring or something, I have no doubt that Ruger will make it right. I don't really see it as any more of throw away gun than any of the other pocket .380's out there right now. Sure, the SIG and Mustang are very nice (if a bit heavy) all metal SA .380s, but within the class of what is selling like hotcakes to the masses, I don't see where Ruger has cheapened much of anything.

Just my opinion, of course

 

[Jimster]

What he said.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Funny, I have over 3500 rounds thru my Pico with the same firing pin. Over a thousand with my second. Modular grips are great, ever have a LCP crack a grip? Might want to inform Ruger and Sig that their new Military Police 320 and Ruger American do not need the modular grips. Yes, Ruger has great customer service. But with a all steel chassis and barrel etc, not much to go wrong. Do not like the Modular grip? So easy to do work yourself if necessary. How about the Night Sights? I love mine.
Yes there is a difference in just enjoying a nice quality Pocket gun. vs having one that just gets by. Yes, many will never shoot them much. Yet there are Pocket gun enthusiast like my self that love to shoot them frequently with a whole lot of ammo down range. I said I have owned 4 LCP's. Still own one. Have had one since they first came out. I hope I know something about the guns. If you are not going to shoot often, just carry the gun, then the Gen 2 at $169.00 may be a good deal. They might even come down. LCP's are basically Keltec guns. They serve a niche market. Most folks over the many years I have been shooting them do not shoot them often and many do not get the Proper range time with Defensive carry such as drawing and quick point and shoot skills.
And by the way. If you ever want to replace a firing pin, even for standard maintenance, a three year old could do it. Have you seen the take down pin on the Pico? The beefy stainless steel will not be a cause for you to worry about sending a receiver down range because the cheap pin, rolled out or broke.

I could just keep my LCP, I know the gun well. But with so much time on the range shooting these guns, I will stick with the Pico. In fact, for me, it is really a no brainer. But this is what is great about America. We can all have and choose what we want. Thanks for your opinion. In the end, I doubt it really matters what you think, or what I think. We choose what we feel in the best solution the best CCW for our Protection.





Stainless steel barrel vs carbon

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks so much gang, well I got one. Had a cool picture of it on a desert rock formation but I deleted it.

Going to the range tomorrow. It is so nice so far, I really like it. Also came with a pocket holster which is a great touch.

Still looking for an IWB holster for it. Will report back tomorrow!

 

[dickydalton]

I still have my old LCP in my pocket 24/7. I did put Galloway springs/SS Guide Rod, a Sweet Pea trigger, Hogue grip wrap and Magguts magazine kits in the mags for it, though, years ago. Eight rounds of 380 in a tiny package and a very good trigger. I hit well with it at 10 yards and I consider it a Fine backup or emergency gun.

 

[beeenbag]

I've been very impressed with the trigger on the LCP II. It's a surprisingly accurate gun thanks to the trigger. It's considerably better than the original model.

This. I've tried the micro 380 thing for years and am finally happy with one. The lcp II is by far the most shootable micro 380 that I've tried and I'm not sure there's one out there that I've not had for at least a small margin of time.

Plus the sights on the lcp II are waaaay better.

 

[Varminterror]

Modular grips are great, ever have a LCP crack a grip?

Nope. I've carried an LCP for a touch over 3000 days, and have a touch under 7,000rnds through ONE of mine - including when I skid down the highway on top of mine after being hit by a car on my motorcycle. My wife has carried hers daily for over 1,200 days. I've used both of these, plus another Gen 2 for the last 5-6yrs as demos for would-be CC firearms buyers in my handgun classes - and have since added two LCP II's. I've not yet broken a grip module. Searching for it now, I can't even find evidence of a broken grip module online.

And of course - know what happens if you DO break one, somehow? Ruger will send you a mailing label, and replace it. Not as easy as buying one online like a Sig P320, but absolutely the same as any S&W, Glock, Taurus, Beretta, HK, non-320 Sig, Springfield... Um - pretty much EVERY handgun except the P320 and 250.... It'd be great if some aftermarket manufacturer like Magpul would start making grips for Ruger LCP's or LCP II's, but I don't think many of us buy LCP's with the intent of customizing or converting - we want a small pistol - what other module would you want?

George Teague is a niche product producer. Sure he has a following, but he's a long ways from someone I would unwittingly follow on such an extreme opinion. He has a personally biased soapbox about the LCP II, which it appears you share. I have no question of the safety of my LCP II - because it requires something to enter the trigger guard and fully depress the trigger, just the same as the LCP, G19, S&W M60, LCR, or any number of other concealed carry models - including your Pico... I've had the responsibility of product and process safety, formerly being certified as a Risk Assessor - I made a living planning for the worst. In that world, you plan for ONE PATH of independent failure modes - and for the LCP II in a trigger covering holster, you have to have TWO paths of independent failures to cause an ND; it has to be removed from the holster AND something has to be inserted into the trigger guard (and subsequently forcefully manipulated to pull the trigger, which is within the same SECOND path). Kinda like being hit by a semi-truck AND by lightning at the same time... Taking a page from Grant Cunningham - you have to consider Plausibility, Possibility, and Probability... Just because something is Plausible, or even remotely possible, it doesn't mean it's actually probable. Your fearmongering, and that of George Teague on his website is extremist and exaggerates the PROBABILITY of a multi-path failure process which really isn't realistic. George goes as far to say:

I will not be making a holster for this pistol. [..] YOU WILL MOST LIKELY END UP SHOOTING A HOLE IN YOURSELF, IN SOMEONE OR SOME THING YOU DID NOT INTEND TO SHOOT.

That's obviously an alarmist statement, and it's nothing more than that. "Most likely" implies a high degree of probability. In comparison - "most likely" anyone getting married in the US of A will get divorced, as over 50% of marriages end in divorce. But people have been carrying SHORTER AND LIGHTER triggers in Glock's for about half a century - certainly not 50% of them have had ND's due to their trigger design. Of course, George ONLY makes holsters for pocket pistols, so he can stand up on saying he doesn't make holsters for Glocks either... But his biased opinion doesn't actually make the LCP II's dangerous.

Serpa holsters are far more dangerous than any LCP II could be - but they're on shelves at Walmarts all across our country. Safer than a Glock is safe, and the LCP II is both.

 

[Fiv3r]

This. I've tried the micro 380 thing for years and am finally happy with one. The lcp II is by far the most shootable micro 380 that I've tried and I'm not sure there's one out there that I've not had for at least a small margin of time.

Plus the sights on the lcp II are waaaay better.

I found my Pico to probably squeeze out the best accuracy but the LCP II shoots better. Basically, if I sandbag it and isolate everything down to just pulling the trigger, the Pico's short muzzle rise shoots a tighter group. However, who in the world shoots a pocket .380 like that in the real world. The LCP II puts rounds down range faster with with better offhand accuracy (for me) due largely in part to the lighter trigger.

I just got back from the range and shot 100 94gr fmj through the LCP II. Groupings are what I call a "fast fist". Firing rapidly at the target just lining up the front sight results in a spread around a fist size at 7-10 yards. Perfectly adequate for my needs for this gun. The best part is that my hand doesn't hurt at all. I don't have a sleeve on it or anything. If I had brought another 100 rounds, I could have shot that too.

 

[Schwing]

I really like the LCPII. I carried the original for a short time but was never really comfortable with how well I could shoot it. The long heavier trigger pull makes the LCP far inferior to the LCPII IMHO. I also like the sights a lot better on the LCPII.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I shot thru 4 LCP's over the course of years and I shoot frequently. I enjoy Pocket guns. I became what I call very proficient with the LCP. I rarely shoot target style, and 95% of my shooting is fast action, point and shoot. Double taps from the draw etc. The LCP has never been able to come close to the Pico or for that matter the Khar I own, in accuracy, especially fast shooting. Some say the trigger is stiff. Most of this comes from newer owners. It is amazing how fast you become use to the Pico trigger which is strong, but even, smooth and deliberate. It feels true all the way through. Shoot it often and for me, I do not want a lighter trigger. I hated the LCP ll. Crazy trigger, about 1/8 of freeplay that felt as if the trigger spring was broke, then a shot travel and then boom. Sorry not for me, especially for a pocket gun. And I find it way too dangerous to carry. If you just shoot at targets and want to take your time between shots then it may be the gun for you.
The Gen 2 (not the LCP ll) actually had a much better trigger. Much like the Pico but lighter. Much safer for carry.
I now shoot the Pico as my main choice and also the Kahr. The Pico eats any ammo I feed it, and runs so darn reliable, a sewing machine is a great description. The gun is extremely Mild to shoot. You do not get the high five slap of recoil the LCP's are know for. The Kahr is a fine shooter, but very finicky on ammo. Does not like most hollow points or ammo with a long AOL.
I recently too all three to the range, the Pico, the Khar and the LCP. Man the Pico and the Khar spoiled me. When I went to the LCP, my groups were terrible. After shooting two mild, and extremely accurate firearms, the roughnest of the LCP brought back old memories. And you especially appreciate the fine sights on both the Pico and the Kahr, especially when going out bast 7 yards.
As I mentioned, I had 4 LCP's and later shot the new LCPll. Hated the trigger, and the gun just did not feel as solid as when shooting as the LCP Gen 2. It seemed to have more twang or looseness. I shot one again a few weeks ago and felt the same thing.

 

[Fiv3r]

I really see no build quality issues between my old lcp and the LCP II. If anything, I appreciate the "American" styling to the II over the original. It really is, for me, a much more pleasant fun to shoot.

The II felt just like the original except I didn't have to put a death grip on it to go off, and I appreciated the slightly larger size.

I'm A poor shot. I'm not a guy who has the time or money to put a lot of lead down range, but I shoot the II better than I did the Pico by a good stretch.

For me, the Pico shot well when I took aimed, timed shots. That short barrel rise and quality smooth trigger equated good accuracy.

However, when it comes to dump and jump distances, I can keep more rounds in target with the II in an off hand rapid fire situation simply because the gun shoots faster in my hands.

I look at it this way, I can squeeze out a lot of accuracy out of the Pico. I can squeeze out a faster fist sized grouping with the the II. All pocket .380s for me are dump-n-run. I won't draw and fire one until I'm closed in upon. I can empty and half-tukused aimed magazine quicker and more combat accurately with the II over the Pico.

Of course, personal preference. Both are equally as effective when you get down to peeking down the business end.

 

[Riomouse911]

I have carried and shot my original LCP since they were first offered. Never had an issue, and (honestly) never really enjoyed shooting it, but I qualify with it every three months and so far so good.

I haven't fired an LCP II yet. Maybe someday I will get the chance to compare and contrast them on the range.

Stay safe!

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Verminator, Your comment about George is simply not true. I was on the LCP forum since the first LCP came out. His comment concerning safety of the trigger was a opinion of a man that has been making holsters for pocketguns for years. He had no reason to make the post or send the letter other than he truly felt the gun to be unsafe for pocket carry. Why would he hurt his own business to NOT make a holster for a popular brand if he did not have strong feeling concerning safety? Besides, the feeling of the gun as unsafe was a huge controversy before George ever made the statement or sent a letter to Ruger.
There were many LCP enthusiast that bought the LCP ll only to sell them and go back to the LCP Gen 2, so don't blame George as the soul believer or antagonist toward the Pistol. It is a belief shared by many long time shooters of the LCP.
You say that you have shot your LCP for 7,000 rounds. I say congratulations, as that has to be a record as I have not known any that would do that kind of round count. The Aluminum chassis simply cannot handle that kind of wear. Ruger does nothing to support the polymer grip. Beretta obviously uses a all solid stainless steel chassis, receiver. barrel and other parts, Khar for instance using steel inserts on to the frame as well as stainless steel chassis. Owning the LCP's and having numerous cracks on the grip, I would be certain to look for one around the 1500 round count. My first one went down around 2200 rounds. I also had one that had a split rail, and others have encountered. I have known on one that did make it up to 3500 rounds, owned by someone else.
Over the years I feel that many owners of Pocket guns really do not shoot them as often as they should. Ironic since many use them as a main CCW. For myself, I was lousy at shooting one when I first started but the small diminutive gun offered a challenge and thus became a regular shooting experience that I got into. I find them fun to shoot. However they require a lot of rounds down range on a regular basis to become really proficient with.

LCP's are nice pistols. Most folks in my opinion will not train on a regular basis with them and feel safe just knowing the gun is with them. All pocket guns are hard to shoot and in truth not for everyone. I like to shoot them often, and enjoy a great shooter. My preference is the Pico after all these years, but it the LCP handles well for you then that is all that matters. Yes, Ruger will replace the gun. They replaced or repaired many of mine. Great customer service for sure.I do not understand why anyone would put down a modular grip. Just does not make sense. Not only can you replace the grip, but makes the gun very easy to work on or change out some springs and other parts on a regular basis if you desire.
For myself, the LCP is not as accurate or as fast shooting to the draw or as mild as the Pico. This is my personal feeling or as you say bias. What I did like about the LCP Gen 2, was the trigger, the fact that the gun would eat any ammo and reliable to a point that he was nearing a crack. And Ruger does take care of the customer. And the other good news is the fact that they still Manufacturer the LCP Gen 2. One wonders why they came out with the new LCP ll but did not discontinue the Gen? The Gen 2 is cheap, around $169. So my opinion is if you like the LCP get the Gen 2 and buy two of them. Especially if you carry and shoot them often.


Here are some pics that will show why the gun needs more support. There are many others, but this will give you a idea. I had one crack that ran all the way down the mag well. Some toward the forward part of the grip.



Rail split

 

[Panzerschwein]

Okay guys, this is not the post I wanted to make...

My new LCP II broke within 100 rounds!!

I wish it weren't so, because the gun was flat out doing so awesome. I was out in the desert shooting at malt liquor cans (they were already there, public shooting area with a lot of trash unfortunately) and man could the lttle gun shoot! I was knocking cans around from 15-20 yards away. The trigger was awesome and the sights very very good. I practiced with 7 rounds and drawing from the included pocket holster. I really do not think the trigger is a problem even for Pocket carry and think the above holster maker is freaking out for no good reason.

But then after shooting 20 rounds of Federal HST which fed great, and roughly 80 ball loads, Blazer brass and Winchester, I started having problems.

First half way through the mag the trigger suddenly went dead. Checked ad the pistol fed fine. Racked the slide and fired a shot, slide cycled... dead trigger yet again. In order to finish the magazie, I had to manually push the trigger forward to get it to reset.

But after that magazine, not even that helped. The gun was dead, the trigger would not reset no matter what I did!

Back at the house I tore the gun down to see what was going on. What I think is happening is the disconnector is loose. I can shake the pistol and hear it rattling around inside the frame!

I am totally upset with this as the gun was super impressive till this happened! Going to call Ruger tomorrow and probably get the gun sent back... just wow. The last new gun I bought that broke this early was a Berea Thunder that sized up whin 70 rounds due to a sheared ejector.

Dang my luck! I'll keep you all updated!!

 

[Zerodefect]

I think it did you a favor. The Keltec P3at, P32 design isn't the best pistol I've ever owned. Hitting a can at 15 yards, is excellent shooting with that pistol. I don't have confidence in doing that in 2 seconds.

Thanks, gang.

I won't be pocket carrying this but IWB at the 3:00-3:30 position.

As far as the G42... sorry, that gun is huge for a .380. Not what I'm looking for.

That's why the Glock is better. Because it's bigger. Easier to shoot. I'd even suggest dumping the LCP2, skipping the G42, and going straight up to the even larger G43. I've all but abandoned the mouse gun market craze that I picked up during the CCW boom. That used to be my thing, but now I've come around full circle.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

That is why the Glock is better? Please, you are not comparing apples to apples. You seem to be missing the point of the benefits of a pocket gun, not to mention the modern day ballistics of the 380. You can always go bigger, but at what cost. First of all, not every one is a Glock Fan. And I even carry a nine many times, but always have the backup pocket gun as well. Many do not want to carry a bigger gun in a office environment, summer etc. The Pocket gun is just as popular now if not more so.
Yes Pocket guns are not always easy to shoot, unless of course you put your due diligence of training and time. I train with one each week and find them very easy to shoot. And they can be darn accurate with this practice not to mention quick on the draw. Once again, Frequent moderate work outs is what my running coach always said. Same applies to shooting any gun that you carry, maybe the pocket gun even more. However it is just a matter of training often that counts. Not many are over night successes.
By the way, there are some nice Micro 9mm's out there, not just Glocks. Bigger 380's just do not make much sense, unless you are recoil sensitive. So many nines like the Khar CM9mm, the Kimber Micro 9mm or some of the Sigs etc. Much better than a Glock IMO.

 

[340PD]

I own or have shot every gun including a few that are not mentioned in this thread. Mouse gun advice is always an active topic as everyone grips these little things differently. Jeb Stuart loves his Pico. I cannot shoot that gun because the trigger has no felt reset and in my large hands the triggers long rearward travel will barely allow me to fire the gun. I guess it could be called length of pull. My point being, everyone considering a mouse gun should handle and shoot one before making their individual purchase.
I have settled in with my LCP and LCPII. I fire both of them on a regular basis (at least once per week) and they are cleaned and inspected after each session. They have no visible wear and if I ever do have a problem, I have no fear Ruger will make it right with me. Too my way of thinking the either of the LCP series at their price point are disposable guns, and for me personally, I find both versions of them to be an effective self defense option.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I have a large hand with long fingers. Shoot often, and reset and length of pull is NOT a big deal. I agree, if you opt to carry a small gun, then shoot them all at least 500 rounds before you decide. Please do no stand at a target and shoot like it is a target pistol. Sorry, 340PD I have NO, problem with trigger reset. Fast shoot the gun. It is natural as the sun comes up each day.

 

[340PD]

Jeb, I meant no disrespect toward you, I have and love a Kahr PM9 with a long pull and inaudible reset but in my hand, for some reason the ergonomics of that gun are different than the Pico's. My point was, there is no perfect one gun choice for pocket carry. In the real world it would be nice if a prospective buyer could handle and shoot before a purchase. At the range where I work I have seen dozens of dissatisfied shooters ask why their new XYZ pocket pistol won't hit what they are aiming at. If I had a nickle for every customer that asks why their SIG 938 hangs up in their pocket when they draw, I could buy a senator.

 

[Yo Mama]

In my humble opinion pocket carry sucks. It's a good idea until you do it and then you have a big weight clapping against your leg constantly and if you're worried about the heat it actually heats up your leg much more where you get sweat spots.

With the right belt, the right iwb holster, and a subcompact polymer frame, you would be in a much better situation than having a pocket mouse gun. I won't talk down on the LCP they seem to be finally made pistols but they are so small I would find myself rarely carrying one and I live in Arizona where's a little bit hotter than where you live.

They're completely different guns but for example the XD mod 2 subcompact is so small that it's easy to hide but gives you a much more stable platform to get shots off on. That Beretta you have is an amazing gun but yes it weighs a ton kind of like a 1911. But to go from that to a little pocket gun it's a pretty big leap.

In the end whatever you by make sure you run a few boxes through it to make sure it's good. A buddy of mine had the original version of the LCP disassemble inside of his hands as the retaining pin flew out into the desert never to be found again. Ruger definitely made it right in the end but it still happened.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Pocket gun is a descriptive term. You do not have to carry in the Pocket. I have a number of nice holsters that Provide great concealment and fast to the draw.

"A buddy of mine had the original version of the LCP disassemble inside of his hands as the retaining pin flew out into the desert never to be found again"

Lol, I had that happen a number of times with my LCP's. They use a cheap think take down pin. Not uncommon for them to break, or roll out.
I buy three or four at a time and would replace them as standard maintenance, like recoil springs etc.

Beretta for instance goes the extra mile. Beefy stainless steel pin and the easiest gun to take down. Just one turn of the screw and the receiver moves to take off.

 

[numbsku11]

I used to have the lcp1 and now I have the lcp2. The latter is a far better gun and worth the extra money. Just do it. Better grip and trigger makes it easier, and even fun, to shoot. The spring that holds the takedown pin broke in my lcp1 and I got rid of it.

I outfitted the lcp2 with a green Viridian laser and it is fantastic, popping holes in a small target @ 15 yards. Practicing with the laser improved my grip and trigger pull when shooting iron sights only. Now I actually shoot it better than my G26 (which I also got rid of). Viridian provides a pocket holster similar to the one provided by Ruger. Carrying with one in the pipe in this holster is not a worry.

 

[numbsku11]

Anyone know if Ruger addressed the takedown pin spring issue from the lcp1 in the lcp2? Like I said in my previous post this happened with my lcp1. Could have replaced it but when dumb stuff like this happens I can’t trust the gun anymore and I prefer not to use it.

 

[Yo Mama]

Anyone know if Ruger addressed the takedown pin spring issue from the lcp1 in the lcp2? Like I said in my previous post this happened with my lcp1. Could have replaced it but when dumb stuff like this happens I can’t trust the gun anymore and I prefer not to use it.

They actually fixed it within the first generation by adding a notch.