Lead ball size for 45 cal and rifle info

[davepool]

A friend gave me a .45 caliber caplock he didn't want anymore, it was given to him 15 years ago and he has never fired it.

It was made by Investarms for Charles Daly, not sure how old it is and neither is he. Hawken style half stock.
I don't have any .45 cal rifles and was curious what size ball would work best in this rifle, .440 or .445 or?

The rifle is in pretty good shape, got the nipple out with a little WD40 and patience, haven't cleaned up the barrel yet but so far so good. Can't see any rust in the first couple inches of barrel ( my bore light needs batteries )

It has a hooked breech barrel

My internet searches didn't yield much info, any help is appreciated.

 

[loose noose]

I use .440 or .430, depending on the patch material I'm using. Note if I'm using denim I'll use the .430, however if I'm using pillow ticking I'll use .440.
Further I use water soluble oil for patch lube, however I do believe any bp lube will give you similar results using round balls.

 

[rodwha]

Even .445" if the patch material is very thin and/or you are willing to hammer it down. Some have claimed they get better accuracy from a very tight fitting combo of ball size and patch thickness. I'm not willing to need a mallet though.

 

[davepool]

What would the starting load and maximum loads be for a .45

 

[loose noose]

For round ball I'd start at 55grns of 3f real Black powder and work up to a maximum of 80grns at 5grns at a time. Once you reach your maximum powder charge you'll see your accuracy drop down significantly. In my .45 Hawkins model Thompson Center Arms, it prefers 70grns of Goex 3f bp. If I go up to 80grns, my accuracy goes way down. BTW the 80grns is not necessarily the maximum load for the .45, but I've owned quite a few .45 percussion as well as flintlocks and none of them would shoot worth a darn when I got over 80grns. With the cost of bp or even the substitutes all your doing for the most part is blowing unburned powder out the end of the barrel.

 

[davepool]

Thanks
It looks a lot like my Lyman Deerstalker .54 cal. which is made by investarms also.
I looked at Investarms website and i think it is a model 130a. It does not list the rate of twist for the 28'' barrel, but i'm thinking 1 in 32.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The Rule of Thumb for reference in the future is you start with powder equal to the caliber, so in your case use 45 grains of 3Fg, and work up. You may also want to check local hunting regulations if you intend to use it to hunt, for some states have minimum loads for deer and such... and you might want to start with the minimum deer load if this is to be a deer rifle. Most folks that I have talked to, whether it's as small as a .45 or a large as a .62, seem to favor loads from 60-90 grains for targets or deer from 50 to 100 yards. Target shooters for ranges at 50 yards and under seem to prefer half loads of 30-45 grains.

LD

 

[Patocazador]

.440 is the "go to" size for .45s. With different patch thicknesses you can shoot .440s in almost every .45 rifle.
Mine is a long rifle with a tight bore. I can barely beat a .445 with a .010 patch down it. A .440 with a .012 or a .433 with a .018 work well with it.

If you have a 32" barrel, about 65 gr. of 3F will be close to the best load. With a 36" barrel try 70 gr. of 3F.

 

[loose noose]

Dave I'm almost certain that the twist in that rifle is 1:48, and I believe it is a 28" barrel. Anyway enjoy it they are capable of excellent accuracy. Like someone else mentioned in some states the .45 is not legal for deer sized animals, it has to be .50 caliber or bigger.

 

[davepool]

I just checked the barrel, clean as whistle , no rust. It has 12 lands and grooves, is this normal for a .45?
My .54 cal only has 5

 

[loose noose]

That definitely is a horse of a different color, never heard of any rifle having that many lands and grooves. You might even consider using .430 balls and denim patches in order to insert the ball and patch a bit easier, or even use a conical. I really don't know what to tell ya.

 

[davepool]

this is it, i guess 12 lands and grooves are odd.

 

[loose noose]

Man that is odd, I wonder if it was re-bored from a .36 and a custom barrel maker did the re-boring. Those lands a grooves appear really deep also. I just checked my .45 Thompson and it has 8 but they appear very shallow. I would use no more larger than a .440 ball and pillow ticking soaked in Bore Butter for a patch and ball for ease of loading.

 

[Ron T.]

The Goex Load Chart shows 60 to 90 grains of FFFg in .45 caliber rifles using the 137 grain round, patched ball... but you can go considerable lower in the amount of powder used and often still get excellent results. Naturally, hunting loads should have a bit more "power" for use on "live" targets to insure a "good kill".

I have and shoot three .50 caliber black powder muzzle-loaders, 2 older CVA Hawken cap-locks (24 and 28 inch barrels) plus a Traditions "Shenandoah" (33½ in barrel) flint-lock "Long Rifle"... and all three rifles "love" a 47 grain load of either Swiss or Goex FFFg at 25 and 50 yards for shootin' paper and the 24" Hawken (my deer rifle) is just as accurate as the 47 grain load using 70 grains of FFFg Swiss with a round, patched ball (177-188 grains). All 3 rifles also have double-set triggers and iron sights.

I've shot loads as small as 30 grains of FFFg with decent results in my .50 caliber rifles, so I'd suggest you start with 30 or so gains of FFFg and "work-up" from there to find your rifle's best accuracy.

Since I get true "target accuracy" using 47 grains of FFFg in all 3 of my .50 caliber rifles, I'd say that old "Rule-of-Thumb" of matching the amount of powder starting at the size of the bore is questionable.

While that old "Rule-of-Thumb" may work just fine, I've found that even smaller charges of powder also do a nice, accurate job as well. As long as it's truly "accurate" and it makes inter-locking, triangle-shaped holes in the paper target at 25 yards or longer, what else is needed?

The bestest part is the "fun" of "working-up" THE most accurate loads off the bench-rest. Jus' my 2¢...


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.