Lead vs Wheel Weight balls

[CavemanEngineer]

The local gunsmith tells me I have to use soft lead and wheel weights are ok for a rifle but the Sporting Goods Store says Lead is too expensive now and they don't carry it but wheel weights are fine. I just finished casting a big ole bag of .451 balls out of wheel weights now I need to know if I can use them in my Pietta Remington and more importantly why? or why not? Is damage to the gun or injury to self at risk?

 

[Aries-]

lyman sells lead i think.
wheel weights are fine.

 

[Steve499]

Loading a slightly oversized ball into the front of a revolver chamber, where a ring of lead is shaved off by the chamber mouth, is easiest if the ball is made of pure lead. Loading becomes increasingly more difficult as the hardness of the ball increases. If the ball is also more than just slightly over the chamber diameter, an alloyed lead ball can be difficult enough to seat that one can damage the revolver's loading lever.

When a pure lead ball, patched, is loaded in a rifle, the cloth of the patch can actually engrave slightly into the surface of the ball. That supposedly improves accuracy.

There are so many different alloy possibilities with lead that it usually isn't possible for a lead scrounger like I am to be certain exactly WHAT I'm casting bullets from. I doubt if all wheel weights have the same exact composition anyway. So..., I just have a rule to never shoot anything I can't get loaded.

Steve

 

[Plink]

You can buy dead soft lead relatively cheaply from plumbing supply stores. Also, keep an eye on local auctions. Occasionally someone sells out their casting supplies, or plumbing stuff. I bought nearly 1,000 lbs of lead and several hundred lbs of linotype ingots for pennies a pound a few years back.

 

[jeep-2]

I just bought 50 pounds pure lead shipped from Texas to upstate NY for $50.00.. from [email protected].

 

[GooseGestapo]

You may have some accuracy issues with the wheel-weights.
The reasons are two fold.
First: As the melt cools, w/w acts differently than pure lead. The wheel weight metal will expand and will "mike"out slightly larger. This makes seating the bullet in a muzzle loader "MUCH" more difficult. In the case of a front loading revolver, the amount of lead shaved may be asymetric and imbalance the bullet destroying accuracy.

Second: due to the hardness of the metal, it might not properly obturate to the bore (upset and expand) if the bullet is an undersized design such as the "Minie" balls. This will increase blow-by around the bullet by preventing proper sealing of the bore. This increases bore erosion and also is very detrimental to accuracy.

The additional cost of pure lead for the "charcoal" burners is well worth the trouble and expense for the increase in performance.

However, I've found an effective way to utilize the w/w metal in my "front loaders". I use a .50/.45 cal sabot and cast pistol bullets. I've found that the bevel based pistol bullet shoot best because they release from the sabot more cleanly with less "upset" in flight and give superior accuracy. Also, my guns are older and have 1/48" twist barrels so they give best accuracy only with "shorter" bullets, ususally 300gr and less.

Effectiveness on deer and pigs is excellent. All I've shot have been "DRT". You still can't argue against the effectiveness of a .45-.50" caliber projectile.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

lead alloy hardness

Actually Goose, the wheel weights don't expand as they cool - they just don't shrink as much as pure lead. So, you are right in that they are going to be a slightly larger diameter, but they don't "grow". You are also correct (IMHO) that they could be a little harder to seat if oversized for the cylinder chamber mounth.

They are perfectly safe to shoot regardless.

As said, they won't obturate like the pure lead. I'd be sure and use grease pills or lubed felt wads to help prevent leading and gas blow-by in the bore.

They will act differently on a "live target" such as for hunting or self defense - they won't expand at all like the pure lead and will just punch through.

Go ahead and give your creations a try - loading one cylinder to see how the bullet seats. If it seats easily enough, then go ahead and load her up and see how they shoot. You may wish to back off just a bit from your usual load - like maybe 5 grains to give them a chance to shoot accurately from the get go. I'd also seat them "sprue up" in the cylinders to give them the best chance for accuracy.

Good luck!

 

[CavemanEngineer]

First off wonder and accurate information. I just got back from a couple days of shooting. A friend and I went to test a few theries on loads of powder and Speer .451 vs my Wheel Weight .451. Accuracy is equal to 25 yards but the wheel weight balls go through and do not flatten. Now although I can't I was witness to multiple hits of 2 liter soda jugs at 50 and 75 yards by my buddy. I thought it was luck but he was killing jugs all day long, I was able to hit close but he was nailing them, pissed me off as it is my gun. The wheel weights were roughly 4 out 6 hits at both 50 and 75 yards, the Speer balls were 2 out of 6. We were using 30 grains 777 FFFg, I haven't lowered my grains as I have been told to because I have shot enough through it now I don't want to change. We sent about 150 Speer balls and 200 or so homemade, I won't be buying anymore as I am sold with free ones from the wheel weights. I thank you all for the information as it is very helpful.

 

[Ranger 40]

The WW RBs work just fine. In a rifle you may need a thinner patch. If you are afraid of the ball slipping the patch just rough the balls on sand paper. Many test over the years prove the WWs work . The flat adhesive backed WW for Mag. wheels are almost pure lead. I use these for handguns or mix them to get a softer lead.
For loading the 6 shooters use a cheater. The hard balls or any balls load easy with a "cheater". Just take a 1/4" steel tubing about 10" long pour lead in about 3" of one end. Slip the hollow end over the rammer and load away. This makes a days shooting more fun.

 

[dstorm1911]

Ranger, don't do that with anything but a 1860 colt...... In one day I busted the loading levers off 4 1858 remmies all right at the axis pin hole, 2 were Ubertis 1 was a Euroarms and the last a Pietta, Don't ask WHY I didn't just give up trying to load the .454 ww balls after the first two broke....... I've been asking myself that for the last 5 months, I repaired 3 of the 4 but am going to have to make another loading lever for the Euroarms as so far non that I've ordered is even close the Ubertis were a pain one is a Lyman made in 1971 the loading lever was serialed to the gun...... now it has a reworked Pietta (the early Uberti used a different lever closer to the current pietta than the current Uberti) the other was a current Uberti (2006) no cheater used thankfully or they woulda just tore loose that much faster......

The 1860 Colt uses a tooth type loading lever so no axis pin to break or hole to tear out etc... I used up all that batch of WW balls in the 1860s fine without incident.

 

[Old Dragoon]

You can get an Euroarms Lever at S & S firearms in Glendale N.Y.

here is their downloadable catalog site:

http://www.ssfirearms.com/download catalog.htm

They sell uberti and Euroarms and others but not Pietta. the Lyman was probably a Euroarms too that far back unless it has the U on it.

 

[dstorm1911]

Old Dragoon, the Lyman is a Uberti particularily as it has the Uberti logo stamped on it they were purchased from both Euroarms and Uberti by Lyman, the 1971 Euroarms uses a different loading lever I've already gotten ones from S&S no match, The reason for gettin the 1971 Euroarms was to make it a twin to the Lyman/Uberti but no luck as the Erorams is the Beals pattern and not near the quality In fact tryin to match the extremally nice quality of that Early Uberti is how I've ended up with now 11 1858 Remmies!!! so far nothin is even close to the workmanship of that early one I've even gotten to the point that if I can at least match it for frame and so on I'm going to settle so far the search goes on I've pretty much gotten to the point of only looking for anoth 1971 Uberti/lyman I let guests play with the others while for now the otherside of the twin shoulder rig has a 1976 Uberti in it, the fit/finish isn't as nice as the Lyman one, the internal parts are cruder in their machining but..... its at least close, Sometimes I'll joke around by puttin on the doundle shoulder rig, with the two 1858s then add a Twin crossed belts setup at the waist with two more, tuck a pair of 1860 colts in my waitsband (cross draw) another 1858 in the small of my back then throw my duster over everything always gets a few comments from friends and some big eye stares from kids but guess who won't be reloading very often

Thanks anyway but It looks like I'll just end up remachining a copy of the original lever, I have a full blown 07 manufacturers firearms machine shop at my disposal just a matter of gettin the time to do it, I spend most of my time building NFA guns or restoring old machine guns etc...

 

[Old Dragoon]

Oh! to be so lucky to have that stuff at your disposal....Covet! Covet! Covet!
You anyways close to LA CA????

I had heard that both Euroarms and Uberti supplied Lyman, I had also heard that the 36 Cal Remy Navy by Lyman was the Euroarms size, beign smaller than the Uberti.

I have owned several Pietta's, a couple Ubertis and several Euroarms, most Remy's but one Pietta 1851 Navy that rocked and rolled with my 2nd Gen 1851 Navy at our last match. 4 stages and neither one misfired,jammed or even slowed down.
I have since sold the pietta when my 2nd 2nd Gen arrived, or was on the way...sometimes you have to part with the good ones to get someting as good or better.